"Violence against women a ‘national emergency’ in England and Wales"

"immigrants who think women and girls are nothing"

Do you have any surveys or statistics that describe what the relative proportions are for people who espouse that attitude for "immigrants" vs the comparator population of people who live in the UK?

There is a serious problem with children of primary age being violent at home towards parents and siblings, often dangerously so, and often starting at an early age. Parents often are at the end of their tether with this, and the behaviours are often not seen at school. Because of the lack of help or any purposeful addressing, the entitlement is set at an early age that the child is the controller of the household, and their behaviour very effectively corporally punishes any behaviours they dislike from parents or siblings. Often to the point where the household is controlled by walking on eggshells around the child.

This was the case with one of mine. He is autistic and the violence stemmed directly from lack of support within school, where he masked all
day long, the effort of which led to the violence.
We fixed it by taking him out of school - we were lucky to have that as an option because the lack of action and care from school was destroying him, and in turn our family. The violence stopped overnight. He is now an adult, working full time and living a very busy and fulfilling life.

More children are struggling in schools today, more seeking ND diagnoses. This won’t change until schools recognise the damage they’re doing. Right now though they are firmly in the camp of blaming the children and the parents.

I had many meetings in school where I was “that” parent. What they couldn’t see and wouldn’t believe was how their lack of support was directly affecting him. He was just being lazy, I was being over anxious, the usual fobbing off tactics. So when I hear about awful parents making excuses for their awful children I tend to see a very different perspective. FB groups are full of parents like me, wanting the best for our dc but having our children’s needs denied and support blocked in school.

Had ds been kept in school I have no doubts that he’d be a menace to society, because school forced him to be in survival mode the whole time.
Some schools now have as many as 30+% children with SN. I know from first hand experience that their SN is often going to be much more difficult to handle because of the lack of support in schools. Not excusing it BTW, violence is violence no matter what, but there is plenty of violence from children that is an overwhelmed out of control violence, not just awful children and crap parents who don’t discipline them. It is preventable. But schools seem to be clinging onto methods that suit very few (including teachers and students here).

We have a huge lack of joined up thinking in the UK. Things will get worse until views on porn use change, and until education makes some real changes to make it better for everyone.

While the stats are horrific, this is excellently timed to define and bring people onboard with the govt pledge to halve violence against women and girls.

I don’t understand why it is an emergency when violent crime has decreased by a heck of a lot…

“..Peak of 4.5 million offences in the year ending December 1995…”

To

“1.9% of adults aged 18 years and over were a victim of violent crime in the year ending March 2022, equating to 1.5 million incidents of violence. Around two thirds (65%) of all TCSEW violent incidents in the last 12 months resulted in no injury to the victim.”

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2022

"2 million women a year estimated to be victims of male violence"
I find that so shocking. That's just those reported - so many women suffer in silence or are not believed. I would say almost every woman I know has had some kind of incident in their lifetime.
Now add to that the affects of losing single-sex spaces, immigrants who think women and girls are nothing and releasing prisoners early - how many women will live in fear? What does the future look like?

There is a serious problem with children of primary age being violent at home towards parents and siblings, often dangerously so, and often starting at an early age. Parents often are at the end of their tether with this, and the behaviours are often not seen at school. Because of the lack of help or any purposeful addressing, the entitlement is set at an early age that the child is the controller of the household, and their behaviour very effectively corporally punishes any behaviours they dislike from parents or siblings. Often to the point where the household is controlled by walking on eggshells around the child.

That's going to transfer straight over to dating relationships as soon as the child is old enough. It's confirmed and set as unthinking habit and belief of self power over others: If you upset me I am entitled to threaten and hurt you until you do what I want.

I saw some good posters at Stirling University last year, explaining what was not OK in sex/relationships and giving alternatives.

it was the teachers sitting the naughty boys next to quiet, sensible girls and holding those girls responsible for poor behaviour

Years ago there was an eye-opening thread where posters recounted the consequences of teachers using them in this way (including punishment beatings administered to the girls by the boys).

when stuff like this comes up people will look at all different factors

Including the reporting and publicity value of 'celebrities and public figures who behave badly'. But I don't know how radical a social revision that would imply…

My concern with doing lessons in schools, would be that the truant children who most likely would go on to be sexually aggressive won't actually be there to get the lessons and you do run the risk of resentment from others.

I think there's got to be a better way to through to those who will go on to offend.*

You're making the mistake of thinking that it's a certain class of man who offends. It's not. VAWAG is perpuated by men from every facet of society.

Domestic abuse is very well hidden and carries on in secret. Nice boys at my university, middle class boys with nice parents, were just as bad as hoodies on a street corner.

Obviously when stuff like this comes up people will look at all different factors.

Labour's response to this previously (when looking at Labour's Mayor or London) has been to run adverts asking men not to do stuff; the "Maaate" adverts, the "starring is a sexual offence" adverts, and not a lot actual measures put in place like more security at stations etc. It seems that the only men receptive to the messaging were the decent men who weren't/aren't sexual offenders, whilst the actual offenders just ignored the messaging.

My concern with doing lessons in schools, would be that the truant children who most likely would go on to be sexually aggressive won't actually be there to get the lessons and you do run the risk of resentment from others.

I think there's got to be a better way to through to those who will go on to offend.

I suppose as people have said it's a lack of role models, and I think it's more productive to give people examples of how to behave instead of how not to behave. Be positive, not negative.

It's not unusual for children to go through primary school without coming across any male teachers, and for boys from single parent families that's quite a miss.

Totally agree. I don’t think this happens to the extent it did but there is still an element of sitting explosive boys next to compliant girl to try and moderate the boys behaviour. It does not work. I do think the “boys will be boys” mentality is changing in schools and is less acceptable but teachers have internalized the misogyny as they are part of society.
However, having been in education for 26 years (I’ve left now never to return) I can not express the utter insanity of parents now and their utter disregard for teachers and other children in pursuit of excusing / enabling violent behaviour from their boys. It’s beyond all reason and until that’s addressed, the rest will all be too little too late

That may be happening now, but when my adult daughter was at school, and actually when I was at school, it was the teachers sitting the naughty boys next to quiet, sensible girls and holding those girls responsible for poor behaviour, or telling girls that when boys are mean to them and hurt them that it’s just monkey love - lack of emotional regulation, liking a girl and not knowing how to handle it so resorting to hitting, hair pulling and other delights. Perhaps the behaviour of boys in schools is getting more out of control partly because our examples growing up is that it’s ok for boys to treat girls like this.

Girls are literally conditioned one way or another to allow boys/men to treat them badly. It’s hardly rocket science that this behaviour is escalating. Sadly it’s also entirely predictable that men (and some women) will defend porn use and uphold the status quo whilst wringing their hands and wondering what on earth is going on.

Thank you. I am too. Scouts was the making of him, it helped that his grandad modelled respect for women to him as well.

I honestly believe that instead of prison they should all be thrown into a fucking zoo and made to live in it together. Absolute apes. No one wants you in society, please kill yourself or live like a baboon in a zoo.

I'm glad your son found a good male role model outside of the family. Not every parent is switched on to this I think.

And also dad's need to step up within their families. I 100% agree about with you re boys needing strong role models - I would argue a strong male role model.

I've seen this myself, as in, the lack of strong male role model, a number of times, leaving wayward boys to their own devices. Just lacking crucial guidance.

Many dads leave it all to mums because it suits them - they can't be arsed or are socialised into thinking it's the mother's role to do all the parenting.

The number of single parent families has risen significantly over the last 20 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281640/single-parent-families-uk/

I think boys need good male role models. My son’s dad definitely wasn’t one as he barely saw him. Fortunately he was a keen scout and the leaders, one in particular, helped fill the gap.

One argument is that boys don't have decent role models but VAWAG has always existed irrespective of role models. This is a societal problem as well as a parental one.

Boys are being socialised to be aggressive and disrespectful to girls.

Excellent points. I wonder if the number of boys being raised in families without a decent role model is a factor too.

Is there a shared understanding of "decent role model"? A fair number of couples/families seem to have at least one decent role model even if (the) other one/s isn't/aren't particularly striking one way or another.

What sort of family structure? Is this recent? Is there a reason why it would be aggravated in comparatively recent times?

Excellent points. I wonder if the number of boys being raised in families without a decent role model is a factor too.

And the data gathering of male violence against women and children needs to be based 100% on the sex of the offender not his appearance, self-identification or possession of any certificate.

So disturbing.

I can believe porn addiction and grooming by influencers like Tate is a big factor.

When left to it, I think male children can very easily get to a lord of the flies type situation if not supervised. This is the result of no online supervision?

I think the internet has a lot to answer for. I also wonder if lack of parenting also has a lot to answer for too.

We get children coming into schools that aren't toilet trained / using cutlery / brushing their teeth. So the basics aren't being bothered with by parents. This is neglect, I'd say children not being parented on behaviour and attitudes/online content is neglect too.

It's so worrying. I'd agree social media is like an experimental drug, good points but comes with major side effects.

This has to be a whole society approach. Everything has to be looked at through the prism of women's safety ‐ no mixed sex changing rooms, no mixed sex dormitories, no mixed sex toilets etc.

This government can't claim to be serious about VAWG if it removes the only long standing rights we have.
It's like the courses for rapists which just turned out more dangerous men who learned from each other. Respect for women starts with small things -like taking no for an answer.

The oppression of women by men runs so bloody deep it's the water we swim in. It's hard to even see or discern it. It takes a lifetime to grasp it, all the layers, the thousands and thousands of tiny decisions and stories that add up to men being posited as the default, superior sex. Might is right. We despise women for their oppression, and for fighting their oppression. For playing along iwth the patriarchy, trying to accommodate it, trying to escape it, trying to question it, fight it, counter it.

But we always have done and always do, and the resistance of women and the sisterhood you find there is the thing that makes it bearable.

No man can ever begin to understand. Any man that suggests he has an ounce of a claim to call himself a woman is heaping that final, outrageous insult onto women on top of the shit we already have to carry. And quite often, they bloody well know it.