"Violence against women a ‘national emergency’ in England and Wales"

The discrepancy is well known and documented.

The police data shows the number of crimes reported to the police.

The CSEW data shows the number of crimes reported to the police AND the number of crimes not reported to the police.

So that could mean abusive men are being more abusive, not that there are more abusive men. Which makes sense in some ways.

Or a higher percentage of abused women are actually reporting it.

Hey! No it is not. It isn’t a “diversion” to look at all the official data on the topic.

Police reports only show the # of crimes that are reported. It is a smaller # than the total # of crimes against women and children that the CSEW tracks.

You can’t discuss crime rates and trends without looking at all the reported and unreported crimes.

Ok so this seems to be the discrepancy between police graphs and survey(s)

And no it has nothing to do with boys growing up with single mothers.

I beg to differ. It’s a contributory factor when boys have no positive male role model. It was something I really worried about with mine as he grew up.

Yeah I did. It is amazing the dots people will connect.

The National Policing Commission report the Guardian article quotes is quite clearly to get more funds and more police to tackle the increase in reported crimes. We know in the past, victims didn’t report or were fobbed of by police who gave the excuse they have to catch murderers over a bit of sexual harassment or a bit of kicking your wife around.

Today the push we have made to get women to report to the police and for them to take it seriously means police workload has increased because they are actually going to arrest and convict more violent men.

You ever read that bit in Freakonomics where they make the case this is correlated with availability of abortion so less children being damaged by being brought up in homes where they weren't wanted?

Let's hope so. I'm not holding my breath given overall performance on various crimes against women though.

It might have worked…..actual number of violent crimes have gone down.

Telling people stuff doesn't work. I agree. We have been telling children to be kind for forty years and it hasn't worked. I don't think the solution lies in more "telling" whether it be talking, posters or talk therapy. We also need to involve men in the discussion and I would be interested to hear how they would approach this.

Look, I don’t understand why you are being so dismissive of the CSEW when it is recognised by the U.K. Gov as the gold standard for reliable data to do trend analysis whereas police data is not.

The table shows what one would expect. That total crimes (reported and unreported) would be a higher number than just the # crimes reported.

Memories are not what is faulty here, it is the fact that many victims don’t report crimes. The surge in reported crimes isn’t a surge in crime, the CSEW shows for a fact that violent crimes have decreased by two thirds.

The difference is that victims are now more likely to report violent crimes.

Yes and more arrests could mean fewer men getting away with DV rather than an increase in DV.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/methodologies/userguidetocrimestatisticsforenglandandwales#comparison-of-the-csew-and-police-recorded-crime

And the decrease in crime as per CSW could be that the random households interviewed whose memories contribute to their figures are not comparable.

Sorry, but according to the U.K. ONS, it is the police crime data that is the unreliable data for trend analysis in crimes and the CSEW data that is reliable.

You have it backwards.

So the NPCC report says: "Domestic abuse (DA) remains one of biggest demands on policing, with arrests for domestic abuse related offences increasing by over 22% in the year ending March 2023, compared to the previous period. Whilst this is a positive shift, we acknowledge that this is only the start and there is still more to do."

But the recording rules are "police.... count only one crime for each time a victim comes forward and record fewer crimes of threatening or abusive messages."

So that could mean abusive men are being more abusive, not that there are more abusive men. Which makes sense in some ways.

I think that the story told by CSEW and police data is that

• All violent crimes, reported and unreported, as measured by the CSEW have gone down a lot, while
• the number of violent crimes reported to the police and arrests have gone up, because

VAWG has been taken more seriously by the police since 1995 such that fewer crimes now go unreported to the police and more women are listened to leading to more arrests of violent men.

This is then deterring the violence, causing the overall downward trend in all violent crimes (reported + unreported).

https://policeprofessional.com/news/distorted-police-statistics-downplay-domestic-abuse-reports-says-commissioner/

No the CSEW say they base figures on subject individual accounts from random households.

Any way this is just stupid diversion.

The Police report (ie not dreampt up by the reported) shouldn't be ignored.

There are holes to be picked in at as I outlined, ie conviction rate etc..

So randomly quoting unreliable figures collected in a totally different way just avoids what the police report is or is not saying.

To be totally cynical I think part of the motive behind the Police report is to show government that funding cuts means that the Police cannot respond to this level of crime.

I haven't checked but IIRC they report domestic violence figures differently. So it could be that.

😮

Quite an anti-feminist post there.

Many men "back off" because parenting is hard work, and they see it as "womens work" and don't feel particularly compelled to do it (or pay for it in lots of cases).
Jeepers.

I thought the shocking stat was that a fifth of all reported crime was violence against women.

A fifth of ALL crime.

Me too!