Wtf Meghan Murphy

I was struck @CassieMaddox by your "how quickly we forget" comment. There are women, very much alive, who haven't forgotten times when women controlled their biology without obligation to the medical industry. These voices (well, the only reason I speak) are trying to pass on some wisdom, a different perspective, in support of younger women. I see the way that things are looking in terms of women feeling less able to say no to sex, having to adopt a sexual identity, genderism, medicalisation of femaleness, appropriation of femaleness, and yes I honestly think this hasn't been "progress" for women. Louise Perry and others very good on this subject. There is more than one "right" way to look at the issue of abortion on demand and chemical contraception.

Meghan Murphy (Feminist Current, based in Canada, strong advocate for women's sex-segregated spaces, sports etc. Canada is TWAW Central at the moment - I think only NZ is worse - and Vancouver council removed funding from Vancouver Rape Crisis Centre because they refused to employ a TiM as a counsellor some years back, it's also where a Women's Library was trashed by TRAs and eventually had to shut down). Murphy has a point here. Biden reversed Trump's removal of trans rights from Title IX, allowing gender to trump (sorry!) sex including in what the US calls 'public bathrooms'. The Democrats have fully drunk the Kool-Aid, and are with the Lia Thomas's and the TRA allies.
Glad I don't have to vote for either, but Trump's platform looks fairly similar to Democrat platforms in the 90s, according to Spiked! online - which I find curious. At the very least he is not going to extend TWAW, but the Democrats most likely will. (Abortion is a state matter, not Federal.)

I think this is exactly where Murphy is coming from. US women are in a lose-lose situation right now. Do you vote Republican and lose abortion rights? Or do you vote Democrat and lose everything else?

However - I was under the impression that the right to decide rolled back from Federal to State level. Many states have already banned abortion, some have written it into state laws and protected it. I'm inclined to think that Trump being elected won't make any difference - if the state wanted to outlaw it they already have. If they haven't yet, I don't see them doing it now. If that is the case - IF - then voting Democrat throws away all rights and voting Republican is unlikely to lose further abortion rights and you might get men and boys out of sports, changing rooms etc.

I think I'd hold my nose and vote Trump.

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She is prioritizing one aspect of women’s rights in her choice and you are prioritizing another. Her view is not any more “weird” than yours.

Neither party in the us can claim a good record on women’s rights. If I had a vote there I honestly don’t know which I would vote for

The pill has also created an expectation that women will be available for penetrative sex at all times. I hear your point, which I think on this particular area of discussion, is that women who are in controlling or coercive relationships can take full ownership of preventing pregnancy. But I do think @AReasonablePerson and others are making good points about the importance and efficacy of broader education. My grandmother told me that her parents' generation (late 1920s, global economic crisis) "if they knew how" limited their families to 2 children as that was generally affordable in their working-class community.

Sorry - but really? Pot/kettle!

Well, I've tried to explain it. She's not giving resounding support. But I can see that you are having trouble getting your head round it.

And you are sharing your opinion of who US women should vote for - can you vote in the US?

MM is not the sharpest tack in the box.

@PronounssheRa put it much more eloquently than I did!

I think the Democrats have betrayed women on abortion. It feels like they kept it as a way to keep women voting for them rather than actually protecting women’s reproductive rights when they could have. So with that and the women’s rights issue in general I’d be pissed off feeling I had to vote blue.

I also think that MM has had some of the experiences of KJK and when you’re totally abandoned by your side and hated on then you reassess literally everything. Sometimes you maybe go too far on some ideas. I think it’s probably hard to end up with anything but deep cynicism about the left/progressive movements though.

I'm not anti-abortion, but the idea that this is a right does a lot of heavy lifting, and to my mind it doesn't serve us in the way many young women seem programmed to believe.

I would agree with this.

I think criticism should be aimed at those in power who use abortion rights as a political football and as a method of control over the female electorate, rather than individual women who have an awful decision to make in November and have chosen to speak out about it.

I don’t think there is any great endorsement of Trump/Vance.

This to me sums it up ^Voting Democrat solely because they'll let you have an abortion while they allow all the rest of our sex-based rights to be destroyed seems unwise to me…^
^It's far from an ideal situation, but I resent being told I must vote for a party that can't even define the word 'woman' because they'll allow women to have abortions. That gives me the icks and should give you the icks as well.^

And the snidey “Oh she always wanted to vote Trump anyway” is such obvious nonsense.
You can find Trump viscerally objectionable and still see that Democrats hate women - they put women into locked cells with rapists for God’s sake. They are utterly beholden to TRA’s and do not deserve the votes of women.

It's hardly a "wtf". American women are in a lose-lose situation with Republicans and Democrats each supporting different policies which go against women's rights.

Like any feminist Meghan Murphy is entitled to her view on which party is less of a lose for women right now.

We are lucky in the UK that we are not faced with the same trade-off between contraception/abortion and other women's rights as in the US. Ironically in the UK that's because we have an NHS and we're not dependent on organisations like Planned Parenthood. For us access to contraception, abortion, HRT and cross-sex hormones are all independent decisions in the UK, whereas they are painfully politically interlinked in the US (and likely in Canada too) So in some ways having more centralised government medical provision has worked better for women. We are TERF Island because we can afford to be.

The TRA position is very anti-feminist yet the Democrats and "progressives" espouse it regardless and keep their hands over their ears against any warnings. And now you're surprised that women are coming out against the Democratic position. If you really are surprised then wake up and smell the coffee. What else did you expect to happen?

I think american women are stuck between a rock and a hard place - the democrats appear to support trans demands wholesale; this means letting males into women's prisons, women's sports, women's shelters etc. Which is worse? Yes women need free and affordable access to contraception and abortion (sorry, "people") but this can't come at the cost of dismantling women's right to name themselves, organise and create single sex spaces and services where they are needed. That is the choice facing them, I honestly don't know which I would choose (I would probably just not vote) as many of the women needing the abortions will be the ones who are pregnant because the Dems have let men who ID as women into women's spaces.

I'm not romanticising. Nature is tough. I suppose the question comes down to how far one is willing to try to control it and how far one views oneself as part of it. Having children, fighting illness, being honest about a human lifecycle. Looking life and death in the face is quite liberating. Especially in the face of so much human profiteering and artiface. These are all philosophical questions. I don't really hold to a right or wrong on it. We answer these things for ourselves. For me, I'd like every women to have freedom to consider these things for herself. For options to be there. But for these to be real options made in a conscious and informed way.

@CassieMaddox I can't tell if you are serious? :) But yes, it was uncommon for women born before 1960 to access the pill. Women used diaphragms alongside other more invasive measures of birth control. And yes same with vaccines of course. Vaccination is another discussion around individual freedom of course. Complex, all of these things! Much comes down to personal belief and understanding about the world we live in and our view on life's purpose and meaning. Deep stuff. But reading history of vaccination and of medicine in general is hair raising and very interesting.