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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Will US Democrats support a WOC as their candidate or will they by pass Kamala Harris?

206 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/07/2024 22:24

Biden Drops Out of Presidential Race and Endorses Harris: Live Updates

After intense pressure from within his own party, President Biden said he was ending his campaign and backing Vice President Kamala Harris to run in his place. Ms. Harris said she would seek the nomination, adding: “Together, we will fight. And together, we will win.”

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/21/us/biden-drops-out-election

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TempestTost · 22/07/2024 01:53

IwantToRetire · 21/07/2024 22:43

I heard this on Radio 4 today and as BBC took it all with a pinch of salt, but it was about why some Black Americans support Trump.

But as the programme went on it became clear that it is Black American men who support Trump, and most (?) Black American women support if not Biden personally but always the Democrats.

There has been a significant swing among black men under 30 towards the Republicans.

I suspect that there will be movement among black women voters as well - I think there has been some already - but not as many, just like women of other races are more likely to support progressive political parties, gender ideology, and identity politics generally.

TempestTost · 22/07/2024 01:50

Do we really need to reduce Harris to her sex and race? It might be nice to talk about her as if she were a real person who has all kinds of qualities.

From that perspective, I suspect they will pass. She's not especially well thought of as a political figure, even before she was given the rather fraught immigration brief. She's not all that popular even among moderate Democrats, and she has a reputation as a bully. Biden did her no favours by making it clear she was an affirmative action appointment either.

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2024 01:48

Hoardasurass · 21/07/2024 23:27

I read that neither Biden nor Obama are backing Kamala and that the choice was down to the govener of california or michigan, as apparently they have the best chance of beating Trump

Given Biden has endorsed Harris, I think you need to check where you read.

IwantToRetire · 22/07/2024 01:46

Sloejelly · 22/07/2024 01:13

This is just because I have never got over the fact that Clinton got more actual votes than Trump but didn't get to be President.

That can happen in the UK too. Conservative constituencies tended to vote more unanimously for their MP whereas Labour constituencies were closer. (Not the last election though). So the Tories would get more votes but fewer MPs.

I know FPP leads to unrepresentative number of seats, but never having heard of the Electoral College until Trump Clinton, it just seemed anti democrat when each individual was for an individual that they wouldn't get to be President.

I was told it was created because those who designed actual felt ordinary voters weren't really competent to take such a decision.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/electoral-college-trump-biden-2024-b2475958.html

and https://archive.ph/2Z8Ed

The Electoral College is a ‘bad’ and ‘undemocratic’ system. Why do we still use it?

In the most powerful democracy in the world, two of its last four leaders have been chosen by a minority of voters. The US’s Electoral College system is now functioning far from how its creators originally intended, Gustaf Kilander writes

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/electoral-college-trump-biden-2024-b2475958.html

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ThreeWordHarpy · 22/07/2024 01:40

I know every electoral system has its strengths and weaknesses, but what astounds me about the American system is that it is still set up for a country where travel was by horse drawn carriage and communication by letters travelling the same way. It’s why there is an electoral college and over two months between the election and the President taking office, to allow the state representatives to the electoral college to come together and elect the president, and for him to go to DC.

My American friend marvels that European countries call elections within weeks and the new government starts work the day after the results are known. I presume it’s a Constitutional thing again where it would be too hard to change, and everyone is too used to being on permanent election footing with a new president starting his campaign for reelection the day after his inauguration.

knitnerd90 · 22/07/2024 01:34

It would be impossible to have anyone else at this point. A lot of groups would be angry at her being passed over for a start, and there's no process to pick anyone new. Hillary Clinton had a specific disadvantage above and beyond being a woman: she'd been trashed by the news media for 25 years. It effectively came down to 75,000 votes in 3 states. It is far, far from a done deal for Trump.

The party is pretty much falling in line. Obama and Pelosi have yet to endorse, but some big figures have. They'll be searching hard for the VP slot.

Sloejelly · 22/07/2024 01:13

This is just because I have never got over the fact that Clinton got more actual votes than Trump but didn't get to be President.

That can happen in the UK too. Conservative constituencies tended to vote more unanimously for their MP whereas Labour constituencies were closer. (Not the last election though). So the Tories would get more votes but fewer MPs.

Omlettes · 22/07/2024 01:10

Starseeking · 22/07/2024 00:58

Hillary Clinton, with all her accomplishments, achievements, and had lived in the White House for two terms previously couldn't get elected President over Trump (I'm aware she got more individual votes).

There is no way on earth that Americans will vote in an Asian-African-American woman over Trump. Since Kamala Harris been VP she's been invisible on the world stage, yet when Hillary was Secretary of State under Obama, she was everywhere!

I heard George Clooney's name being whispered as the Democrat candidate. I don't know anything about what his knowledge of politics is, but I'm not sure that matters!

She won the popular vote by 3 million.
Trump didnt, he won the electoral college vote.

Sloejelly · 22/07/2024 01:03

SheilaFentiman · 21/07/2024 23:31

Biden endorsed Harris very quickly, so not sure where you read that.

She is his vice president. How can he say he has confidence in her as his VP and someone who can take over as president should he be incapacitated, and then suggest someone would make a better president? There was no choice for Biden on that.

Starseeking · 22/07/2024 00:58

Hillary Clinton, with all her accomplishments, achievements, and had lived in the White House for two terms previously couldn't get elected President over Trump (I'm aware she got more individual votes).

There is no way on earth that Americans will vote in an Asian-African-American woman over Trump. Since Kamala Harris been VP she's been invisible on the world stage, yet when Hillary was Secretary of State under Obama, she was everywhere!

I heard George Clooney's name being whispered as the Democrat candidate. I don't know anything about what his knowledge of politics is, but I'm not sure that matters!

SonicTheHodgeheg · 22/07/2024 00:52

I think that they’ll pick Harris because picking anyone else (even another WOC) will make the party look bad for not following unspoken rules like VP being the nominee after POTUS.
I know that Trump is hoping to go up against Harris and I think he’s going to win.

IwantToRetire · 22/07/2024 00:51

endorsed by the Democrat Congress yet, that’s next month

That's what I meant about not much time (isn't it 14th August) but presumably in each State the Democrats are already prepared but no time for horse trading over new candidates now that Biden has stepped down.

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IwantToRetire · 22/07/2024 00:49

With Kamala Harris, Democrats would bet against US history of sexism, racism
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/with-kamala-harris-democrats-would-bet-against-us-history-sexism-racism-2024-07-21/

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Meowzabubz · 22/07/2024 00:46

IwantToRetire · 22/07/2024 00:44

I've been reading and failing to understand the process that will be needed to go through to make whoever it is the official candidate.

Apparently they were going to try and cut down on some of the publice procedures (to protect Biden) and use some sort of online voting.

But now it may have to go back to basics. Which, and am happy to be corrected are that each state has to agree and then their delegates have to formally present who has won their state selection.

And for whatever reason this is really soon.

I am wondering whether through unintended as much as intended bias the process could be rigged.

This is just because I have never got over the fact that Clinton got more actual votes than Trump but didn't get to be President.

This is a very long article and there may well be a better explanation of the process https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/21/open-convention-democrats-biden-drop-out/

They need to do it that way or else the states cannot put the nominee's name on the voting ballot.

They really have fucked themselves.

SheilaFentiman · 22/07/2024 00:45

Biden hasn’t been endorsed by the Democrat Congress yet, that’s next month. Trump was just endorsed by the Republican one (scary MAGA people wearing ear bandages)

IwantToRetire · 22/07/2024 00:44

I've been reading and failing to understand the process that will be needed to go through to make whoever it is the official candidate.

Apparently they were going to try and cut down on some of the publice procedures (to protect Biden) and use some sort of online voting.

But now it may have to go back to basics. Which, and am happy to be corrected are that each state has to agree and then their delegates have to formally present who has won their state selection.

And for whatever reason this is really soon.

I am wondering whether through unintended as much as intended bias the process could be rigged.

This is just because I have never got over the fact that Clinton got more actual votes than Trump but didn't get to be President.

This is a very long article and there may well be a better explanation of the process https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/21/open-convention-democrats-biden-drop-out/

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AutumnCrow · 21/07/2024 23:37

It seems to be a choice of horrors in the US for women.

This is the bottom line, isn’t it? Harris is perceived as being in thrall to gender identity ideology, but is perceived to be very strongly pro-choice regarding women’s reproductive rights.

Trump is perceived as the reverse, and/or a man who will say and do anything to get re-elected, and who will shit on women anyway.

SheilaFentiman · 21/07/2024 23:31

Hoardasurass · 21/07/2024 23:27

I read that neither Biden nor Obama are backing Kamala and that the choice was down to the govener of california or michigan, as apparently they have the best chance of beating Trump

Biden endorsed Harris very quickly, so not sure where you read that.

Hoardasurass · 21/07/2024 23:27

I read that neither Biden nor Obama are backing Kamala and that the choice was down to the govener of california or michigan, as apparently they have the best chance of beating Trump

Meowzabubz · 21/07/2024 23:14

Catsmere · 21/07/2024 23:10

Given that Hilary Clinton won the popular vote and the Electoral College made sure Trump got in, I don't see Harris having any chance. I'm glad Biden's not running, but the Democrats have probably thrown the election away regardless. It seems to be a choice of horrors in the US for women.

And Hilary Clinton was Hilary frickin Clinton. She was an enigma on par with Trump. Kamala isn't even close to having Hilary's presence and command.

Catsmere · 21/07/2024 23:10

Given that Hilary Clinton won the popular vote and the Electoral College made sure Trump got in, I don't see Harris having any chance. I'm glad Biden's not running, but the Democrats have probably thrown the election away regardless. It seems to be a choice of horrors in the US for women.

KnickerlessParsons · 21/07/2024 23:09

Apparently, if she runs they can use the money they've already raised because she was standing jointly with Biden. If they change candidates they can't use the money. So my bet is she'll be the chosen one. She'll need a running mate though.

ThreeWordHarpy · 21/07/2024 23:05

I was speaking to an American friend last week, she lives in South Carolina. Although she is a Democrat her opinion is that America as a nation just isn’t ready to elect any woman as president, regardless of her ethnicity.

PerkingFaintly · 21/07/2024 23:04

I agree that whether potential swing voters will support Harris herself will matter, of course.

PerkingFaintly · 21/07/2024 23:03

Meowzabubz · 21/07/2024 22:51

I don't think that is the question. A lot of disaffected republicans and independents supported Nikki Haley over trump, so we know that they will for the right candidate.

It's will they support Kamala herself?

More importantly, will democrats? She is not even popular among her own party.

Supporting Haley over Trump doesn't really make them swing voters between parties, though.

I mean, some might well be. But it's not quite the same thing.