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Original poster

How do they not 'get it'

43 replies

EllenLRipley · 19/07/2024 11:57

I was talking to a family member and they broadly agree with me re women's rights and single sex spaces but feel the debate is 'exaggerated' and 'overblown'. This person deeply cares about me. This persons sister(17) was in hospital and DF had to argue to ensure she was not put on a mixed sex ward over night. Only when he said he was staying all night to keep her safe did they find a female bed for her. I have a condition that is likely to lead to paralysis. I am likely to spend periods in hospital within the next 20 years. But he cannot seem to see that we are directly adversely effected and frankly frightened about going into hospital if a trans identified male is on the ward. Karen White lived 2 miles from this family members home but he still doesn't seem to be able to shake the view that 'this doesn't really happen' or 'the real issue is the Torys defunding the hospitals/prisons/schools" etc.

How does this mindset work? Is this cognitive dissonance?

OP posts:
Original poster
EllenLRipley · 19/07/2024 14:08

littleburn · 19/07/2024 13:59

Honestly, even the nicest, most switched on men don't really see 'women's issues' as all that important. They may get your point, they may even agree with you, but when push comes to shove it's all a bit niche, a bit secondary. Certainly not as important as the 'real' issues', i.e. the ones that affect men. It's incredibly disappointing when you realise it, but the maxim 'man is the it, woman is the other' runs deep.

Yes this is it, I feel.
"it is bad, but not that bad"
Hmmm

OP posts:
Original poster
EllenLRipley · 19/07/2024 14:07

I got upset because I was making a totally unrelated point about Gaza and he said "OHHHHHH David Lammy is GREAT, he will sort it all out" as a kind of hilarious trolling comment as he knows I despise Lammy due to his grotesque misogyny. I accused him of trolling me, and pointed out how worried women were - genuinely frightened and it was not a joke to us. And asked him not to joke about us having a government with so many on the Trans bandwagon. And it was all very 'calm down dear'. Which is what always happens.

OP posts:
Original poster
EllenLRipley · 19/07/2024 14:04

Catsmere · 19/07/2024 13:47

Does he count AGPs as "really trans" or "not really trans"? 🤔

He understands AGP and thinks they are male perverts trying to access women's spaces.

He does not think males should be allowed in women's spaces, he just thinks it's silly to be so het up about it.

OP posts:
littleburn · 19/07/2024 13:59

Honestly, even the nicest, most switched on men don't really see 'women's issues' as all that important. They may get your point, they may even agree with you, but when push comes to shove it's all a bit niche, a bit secondary. Certainly not as important as the 'real' issues', i.e. the ones that affect men. It's incredibly disappointing when you realise it, but the maxim 'man is the it, woman is the other' runs deep.

RedToothBrush · 19/07/2024 13:55

He doesn't get it, because he doesn't want to.

If he did want to, he'd then see there were issues he might be forced to care about and verbalise.

But he doesn't because its less effort than to give a shit.

Nothingeverything · 19/07/2024 13:51

I don't think he considers them at all. His image of tw is very much of the effeminate, "born in the wrong body" type.

Catsmere · 19/07/2024 13:47

Does he count AGPs as "really trans" or "not really trans"? 🤔

Nothingeverything · 19/07/2024 13:45

I have a male friend like this. He firmly believes that hospital managers/prison wardens etc will be able to tell who is going to be a danger/isn't really trans and stop them. I have explained that's not how it works but he doesn't believe me.

Catsmere · 19/07/2024 13:41

So is he saying Karen White, Isla Blair et al don't count, and more importantly their victims don't count?

Original poster
EllenLRipley · 19/07/2024 13:16

WallaceinAnderland · 19/07/2024 12:51

Is he saying that men can turn themselves into women.

Or is he saying he knows men can't turn themselves into women but doesn't care how that affects women.

It has to be one or the other.

No, not at all - he is very clear that they cannot and that the gender critical stance is correct.

OP posts:
CocoapuffPuff · 19/07/2024 13:12

Because he's a he.

None of it affects his life in the slightest.

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 19/07/2024 13:10

A lot of people just don't care until it personally affects them, it's as simple as that.

WallaceinAnderland · 19/07/2024 12:51

Is he saying that men can turn themselves into women.

Or is he saying he knows men can't turn themselves into women but doesn't care how that affects women.

It has to be one or the other.

Catsmere · 19/07/2024 12:25

"The debate is overblown" how many women and girls have to be raped in hospitals, shelters, anywhere, for it to be serious? What's his acceptable number of victims, and of rapists allowed in to what should be single-sex places?

Original poster
EllenLRipley · 19/07/2024 12:22

Thanks

OP posts:
popeydokey · 19/07/2024 12:19

"The debate is overblown" is a meaningless thing to say. The number of people talking about something rarely has any correlation as to whether it's true or not or is risky to those involved.

It sounds like he just doesn't really understand risk and how prioritising reducing various risks differs between people.

Besides, at the heart of the debate is who is defined as a man or woman - that affects everyone.

WallaceinAnderland · 19/07/2024 12:07

He doesn't care as much as you think he does.

Sloejelly · 19/07/2024 12:03

You’ve repeated mentioned the cause ; ‘He’.

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