Council worker sacked over pronouns

The judgment is worth a read. The claimant clearly feels very strongly about this on principle, and was deliberately protesting the council's adoption of the ideology per se , rather than the lack of opportunity for employees to express their non-believer status in their email footers (HR seem to have suggested looking for less 'offensive' wording that might have this effect, but he wasn't having it).

He uses the word 'evil'. He also objects to the Equal Treatment Bench Book, which provokes an 🙄 from the Tribunal ('we don't know what he expects us to do about it'). And he refuses to be he/himmed.

He deserved to lose, but I wish he'd involved a clever lawyer much, much earlier, because they might have been able to achieve something.

We are invited to have pronouns in our signatures.

At our last EDI meeting a non-binary person was invited along to talk about their lived experiences and how we can help them feel safe.

Before the meeting we were sent a set of conduct guidelines which included using pronouns in signatures.

At that point I identified a scheduling conflict and opted out of the meeting. A colleague attended and they were all asked to take it in turns to share their pronouns at the beginning. My colleague declined and later accidentally referred to the non-binary person by their bio pronouns. He was later given a talking to.

Nail on head

Yes, quite

He was silly and facetious but not offensive and he didn't endanger anyone. He probably deserved a warning. But being sacked? Is there more to this?

I wonder how he was "reported"

So this man is a troublemaker for stating facts, but a trans woman is absolutely fine to lie and tell people he is a woman? 🙄

I'm glad this man did what he did, the more people that highlight this gender pronoun crap, the better.

Say 'Juan cur' out loud

I am invited to state my pronouns in my email from a large US company I work for. I haven't
Its no big deal, it wasn't refusing to state his pronouns that got this idiot into trouble it was his behaviour over it

It's a stupid policy but his way of pointing that out wasn't going to make them change their minds. Yes, his response was provocative but then so is adding pronouns in the first place, particularly those stupid made up ones. You may as well invite people to add their horoscope sign for all its relevance.

Let's not pretend this pronoun adding is anything other than a trendy political signal rather than a sincere attempt to avoid sexual ambiguity. And I suspect it will die out sooner rather than later.

Until then, it's a handy way to separate wheat from chaff. I find people who add their pronouns do so because (a) they are be-kind sheep who haven't thought about the issues and so have illustrated that they will take a stance without thought or (b) they are ideological zealouts who are being deliberately provocative by stating either outright lies or the patently obvious in adherence to their new religion.

Neither are types of people I'm likely to admire or trust with complicated or nuanced problems.

I wonder if the fact that he lost in tribunal will get him sympathy - from men.

Sure it is, there is no back story here. If he is difficult for people to work with in general he can get sacked for it. It is highly unlikely that this is his first instance.

How much n earth could a male calling himself “Adult human male XY “ be putting anyone at risk?

At least this man won’t be using women’s changing rooms and loos by the sound of it.

It's insane! Stop the world, I want to get off! Sacked for writing something blindingly obvious!

Which isn't a sackable offence!

I understand from a comment on Twix that he represented himself.

If he does want to go for appeal, I hope he consults a good lawyer who can assess the likelihood of success.

There might be a case to be made to say that the request even being made put him in a difficult position and that being allowed to have pronouns vs being allowed to have nothing is not a reasonable position and therefore, that if pronouns are to be allowed and indeed encouraged, that reasonable protest should also be allowed.

I don’t like these cases that are being brought (mostly by men, it appears) where someone has done something that even many of us would regard as provacative. Without representation, it is impossible to say whether they might have won if their case had been presented differently. It may also be that any decent lawyer would have advised them not to go ahead.

As it stands, it adds to the transactivists’ claims that misgendering and other such activities are outlawed/illegal. That’s a claim they have been making since Forstater and unfortunately, it has not been properly examined in a court case.

The case of a polite women, who has misgendered for good reasons or used pronouns in signature as an objection, but carefully staying professional (arguably XYGuy or whatever he wrote sounds tongue in cheek to me) brought by a good legal representative would be a much better test case.

Sounds like he was sacked for being ab arse not because of pronouns.

😂

It is all so Jonathan Swiftian.

james is becoming popular as a girls name

Another celebrity has named their daughter James | Elle Canada

He was given the choice and he accepted. Why should he remove them if they didn't like what he chose?

Is his nonsense any more or less worthy than theirs?

I see

He was given the option to choose his pronouns to go on his email signature (ludicrous though that even is) He was not required to include them. I think if he had been required to include pronouns he’d have probably had a stronger case

which is why the judge said

Dismissing his claims of discrimination, he said: “None of the treatment he experienced was because of his beliefs or expression of beliefs. The treatment – all arising from hi’s refusal to remove the email signature – was because he used a provocative email sign off that was not acceptable to [the council].”

Madness isn't it, coming from a lesbian!

Can I ask what these mean please?

Exactly, they were asked to choose their pronouns, he chose his?
Hope he appeals!

I would like the option of XX or XY

be good as a title instead of Mrs, Miss or Ms

XX Rafone would be my choice

without being arse y