Jolyon jumps the shark - is trans a cult?

That report is very thorough. It leaves no doubt that the ban will be permanent.

Might be worth a thread of its own ad its do important 😊

I'm sure JM will be relieved, perhaps a little shame faced, to read that Gov. publication and know all his scaremongering fears weren't warranted. I bet any second he'll be TwiXing apologies and retractions...any second...he's a busy bloke...refunds to issue...any moment now...

Its not just the TV execs who are culpable, its the US viewing audience who didnt kick up an almighty stink!
I simply cant believe it kept airing, bystanders who not only do nothing, but actively seek it out are enabling the abuse. And that includes people like Exulansic who use it to power their online career.
I saw 2minutes and that was enough to write an email.

As has been frequently pointed out on this board, there is a big difference between the various groups identifying as trans. I am not a scientist or an HCP but it would be very remarkable if an adult male who went through a normal male puberty at the normal age and then starts taking cross-hormones in middle age or later had the same experience as a male child who takes puberty blockers to stop puberty getting under way for several years, falls behind his peers socially, emotionally and physically, and then has a much delayed puberty while taking drugs to suppress his body's normal testosterone production (which in a normal male puberty should be soaring at this point) and to introduce oestrogen in far larger quantities than a normal healthy male of any age would ever have. It is incredible that the children affected by this experiment have not been properly monitored and once they move on to the adult services there is no follow up at all as far as I'm aware.

Amazing chutzpah for one of the former group, because that's what I'm assuming Butterfly is, to come on here and start lecturing us for being concerned about what this unregulated medical experiment might be doing to vulnerable children.

That's absolutely damning of people who have been instrumentalising the issue.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust/review-of-suicides-and-gender-dysphoria-at-the-tavistock-and-portman-nhs-foundation-trust-independent-report

this has just been posted.

No - you don't sense a hint - you see a tsunami of women, parents and decent men horrified at how mentally vulnerable children have been experimented on and abused by the medical profession, cynical trans lobbyists out to pursue their own wishes & some of the trusted adults meant to care for and protect them. Although we're talking about the abuse of one individual male born child, we're also aware that the majority victims of all this are now girls and young women, cynically targeted by the above.

No hints - fucking furious rage at evident child abuse.

Some very strange claims about Jazz Jennings' endocrine system above, reminiscent of the misinformation campaign about breast growth. Do I sense a hint of the strategic direction for the attack on adult care, perhaps?

The claim used to be 2 years. Then it was pushed to 5 years. Now it generally hovers at 10+ years.

It's already been twelve years since GIDS started authorising GnRH agonists for under-16's.

Where are all these people? The numbers should be overwhelming by now.

Thank you, so much, for this.

There is so much false information in that post that I felt overwhelmed with where to begin, but by the time I got to JKR's "hobby" I realised that we're dealing with someone deep in the cult weeds.

No one wants to admit they've been scammed, that's why scams work, and work over and over again on the same person. When we're trapped in a con, we make up justifications and clutch at jarring ideas that back up our own perceptions; we use phrases and slogans, rather than asking questions and listening to scientific answers and researched experience; we say 'you're a villain' rather than trying to understand the other side's point of view; we insist we're right and the voices arguing with us are out to get us; we resort to threats and compare our struggles with huge historical struggles that have gone before us.

Reasons I don't think GCs are a cult of bigotry and ignorance: GCs are constantly looking to steel-man their arguments; they listen to their trans friends and family and make constructive suggestions about they can live healthy, successful lives (like third spaces); they aren't trying to make money or build a power base, they're just trying to maintain the little protections women and children have recently managed to build.

Reasons I think TRAs are a cult: the structure of scams, the psychology of cults, the pattern of social contagion, where the money is being made, scientific research, life experience, statistics on crime and violence, listening to what trans activists say, and the figureheads of TRA being people like Jolyon Maugham.

But I'm constantly reading more across the media to see if I could be wrong.

The other thing is, I'm going to predict that his ghastly family, reading the writing on the wall, and realising they will become pariahs and be blamed, are going to act all outraged and sue the medical profession for influencing them in the wrong direction.

Gotta keep that cash rolling in.

I agree. The normalisation of child abuse is unbelievable.

The other clip that I found appalling was where the doctor pointed to Jazz's chest and said (creepily) the drugs did you do a favour there, and then pointed to his groin and said but apparently not there. His under developed penis not having sufficient skin to create a neo vagina.

Like it was a total surprise.

Because no one could've predicted that taking puberty blockers and stopping him developing would, you know, stop him fucking developing.

His reaction was awful to witness.

But what was truly horrific was the impression the doctor gave that they were just as surprised as him and they're all in this together, discovering these things as they go along.

No wonder WPATH witnesses have said these children can't consent. His doctors pretended that they had no fucking idea what was going to happen, just like him.

There is a distressing clip where Jazz has been examined by those freak drs. The parents are there and they're all cracking jokes. The dr say something along the lines that Jazz. Could be a porn star the way everyone's studying it. They're talking about a child who was experimented on and horrifically mutilated. I'd lock the lot of them up

Iirc hasn't she done more than just threaten to dilate his wound herself?

It's a scandalous clip, I agree.

Bloody woman wants locking up! It's child abuse, and, even worse, for monetary gain.

I've seen the clip of Jazz's mother talking about the poor boy dilating with a load of her gal pals.

She says that he doesn't dilate properly, and if 'it' closes up, she's going to be furious; and that she wakes the poor kid up in the middle of the night and threatens to dilate him herself.

🤯

What Cocoa said. It's almost unbelievable.

Jazz gains weight as a male because Jazz is male, with a deeply messed around endocrine system and a family who appear to be sociopaths enabled by a TV company so devoid of morals that they make dog fighting rings look like decent people.
I've seen about 15 mins of one show and the mother frightened the life out of me. That poor child didn't stand a chance. Yet Jazz is the "poster child" of the movement.

Yes and have you seen the show? His family openly mocks him for his weight and his difficulties in moving. The producers put him in situations he clearly does not have the sexual interest or social ability for eg dates with adult transwomen.

@CocoapuffPuff it's partly BED, partly estrogen-driven weight gain, partly his lack of mobility. The specific shape of his body is not so odd when you consider that he is gaining weight as a male would, ie around his middle, rather than as a female would in the breasts thighs and buttocks.

Fair enough, but that's pretty much my point - eating disorders don't happen because someone is happy. Jazz's torso shows a similar change to that of the castrati in the opera world. Barrel shaped. It's a description, not a judgement on a kid who has been abused mentally and physically from a very early age by the people who are supposed to be the protectors. I will never blame Jazz, or the other kids in the family (Stockholm syndrome in full display) but I will, and do, blame the patents, grandparents, medical teams and absolutely 100% blame TLC for monetizing child abuse and creating what will, in a very short time I hope, be viewed with horror. A cautionary tale that sadly, I doubt anyone will really learn from. They turned castrating a child into entertainment.
Unforgiveable.