BMA to vote to 'disavow' the Cass review

Yes, nearly six o'clock. They should have made their minds up by now.

Thanks Signalbox that is interesting.
IANADoctor. Feel like medically it’s very confusing to describe something in a male body, in terms of a condition of the lining of the uterus.

Any update?

Glad you could talk to your friend about it porridgecake. She must have huge congnitive dissonance.

Sorry to hear that anyone is unwell, of course, but appropriating a female disease for validation is such an appalling thing to do. I was just hoping that it wasn’t about that.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4183904/#:~:text=The%20occurrence%20of%20endometriosis%20in,been%20reported%20in%20the%20literature.

Exactly. Completely incoherent nonsense. But even supposedly educated people believe this rubbish. I said to her that he hadn't got a uterus and never had one, so endometriosis not possible. But the propaganda is pushed relentlessly. The individual probably has some sort of bowel problem.

Apparently in very rare cases men can develop an endometriosis like condition. The bit that doesn’t make sense is that they would have to transition to get treatment. That’s bizarre.

Queer Theory breaks everything.

So true.

Women's Liberation
Women's Studies
Same sex relationships
Gender non conforming
and so on

Is it the Queer Threory rather than being the radical analysis of oppressive societies, is in fact the indulgence of those who are the privileged beneficiaries of those societies.

porridgecake I’m really confused about what you posted. A male person needs treatment for endometriosis? But they haven’t got any womb lining to cause the endometriosis. Men haven’t got a female reproductive system. So it’s not possible. Someone here is very confused and/or being lied to, or is lying?

Here’s an archive link Grammar

https://archive.is/y7G9S

I think a pp mentioned this, but surely the indemnity insurers will take a very cautious approach (or charge absolutely loads in premiums) to covering anything that might go against the Cass recommendations, regardless of whether this motion passes or not. I.e whatever political position the BMA or any other group chooses to take, the reality is that the insurers who will get the bills if it all goes wrong will exert some influence over it. I can’t see them being keen on wanting to cover gender medicine for children post-Cass.

got a link?

Only read the OP. What a bunch of utter cretins, and what a waste of medical training.

the article (New Statesman, can't see it all) starts by saying that the 'rules do not apply' in gender medicine, which is an entirely bad start, suggesting any experimentation is reasonable. This is worrying if the BMA thinks this. Would they say it of cancer sufferers, girls with anorexia?

Don’t be silly. You only listen to the CORRECT lived experience, that it why you have lived experience expert panels so you don’t need to bother with any lived experience that contradicts you.

I think the BMA will play right into Wes Streeting's hands if they vote for this shite. It won't be ignored by the press and he can completely discredit their demands in the pay talks as plainly they are unreasonable and as mad as the proverbial box of frogs.

Interesting that Doctors Reddit is not enthusiastic about this.

I used to be active on Medtwitter and that was very TRA. Mainly male gay posters or women wanting to help disadvantaged groups. Nobody with kids.

Had a look on a closed doctors forum- there they are all saying shit like this is why they left the BMA years ago. Plus an interesting suggestion that it has been proposed to shut the activists down.

There are regular threads by GPs who want nothing to do with trans prescribing and doctors who persuade parents not to touch the Tavistock with a bargepole.

Coming next: The Construction Industry Council 'disavow' gravity.

There is a patient liaison committee within the BMA. Wonder if this was ever on their agenda

There are examples where the patient/service user/'expert by experience' voice has been important. Where things go wrong, it's often the patients and carers who bring the issue up first, and often have to struggle to get their voices heard. I'm thinking about thalidomide, contaminated blood and transvaginal mesh inserts, to name but three examples. It takes a determined effort to break through the 'safe and effective' assurances. Not just healthcare either. Post Office accounting systems spring to mind too.

Having said all that, I'd still rather trust a systematic review of a bunch of decent randomised controlled trials over and above a handful of people with pronouns in their email signatures participating in a focus group. If there was a Cochrane Collaboration appreciation society, I think I'd join it at this point.

Yes indeed, except for the lived experience of rape victims, which they weren't so keen to hear about.

I've had to read that several times because I actually can't believe it. Surely he is not actually getting any 'treatment' or even pretend treatment? Is he lying to her or is she lying to you to bolster an argument?...fucking nuts.

The indoctrination has been intense. I had a conversation with the wife of a friend recently. She is a graduate, works in advertising, mid 40s, has children. Assured me that her "friend", born male, couldn't get treatment for their endometriosis until friend transitioned to female. Friend is now having the treatment for their endometriosis that they needed all along. Astonishing.

Absolutely. That is why Cass assessed the quality of the studies too.

Yes of course, there's a lot more to trial design. I was just using a very simple example of placebo versus intervention for the sake of illustration. There's a few other ruses I've seen, such as measuring outcomes at a large number of points and only reporting those which are favourable to the preferred treatment, comparing a tiny dose of the business-as-usual treatment with a large dose of the new one and so on. You can also make a big difference to the apparent outcome through careful manipulation of the inclusion or exclusion criteria too.

Even so, I think I'd rather trust some sort of experimentally-designed comparison than guesswork, custom and practice and gender ideology!