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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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80 replies

Brainworm · 15/07/2024 09:04

The media coverage of the attempted assassination of Trump prompted me to recall a time when a friend of mine worked in the House of Commons in the mid 1990s. Whilst political differences were as significant then as now, MPs from opposite sides of the house were best men at each other's weddings (yes, it was mostly men who were MPs), god parents to each others children etc.

Whilst the 'gender debate' is often described as 'toxic', this is within a climate of it being common place for political views / positioning to being considered something other than 'different conclusions/positions'. Views and opinions are often dismissed or condemned as 'hateful' or 'ignorant', when they simply involve people giving more weight to certain points than others and drawing different conclusions.

I can be, and am, friends with people who claim TWAW. I can be friends with someone who believes there should be single sex spaces yet males with certain thoughts about them should be admitted. The thing that would get in the way of our friendship would be refusal to have reasoned discussions and incorrect accusations of hatred. If I felt that their opinions were based on false premises, I could just say that and still maintain my friendship. I could only maintain a meaningful friendship if they also 'agreed to disagree'.

I have friends who follow all sorts of fad diets and buy 'miracle creams' for cellulite. I have friends who play the national lottery - experiencing a frisson of excitement that this week they really feel it's their lucky week. I am the 'sciencey' friend who 'pisses on their chips'.

I have some friends who are incredibly angry and anxious about climate change. They are also 'TWAW' and want TW to be included in female spaces. I have explained to them that the 'real and present' threat they feel around global warming despite there being little impact of people's current daily life, is similar to the threat some people feel in relation to single sex provision. Since this discussion, they have been far more open to my position and views and we can and do discuss them at times. We also connect and have fun together in lots of other ways and they are lovely, caring people who enrich my life.

I think social media, and what is reported, gives rise to the idea that people with different views are so polarised that they can't have civil discussions, let alone be friends. I'm interested in hearing from FWR posters as to whether this is the case for them?

OP posts:
LaLoba · 15/07/2024 10:12

I can be, and am, friends with people who disagree with me. The problem with TWAW people is that I don’t believe anyone really thinks that’s true. So under the politeness we both know they are lying to try to force me into ‘being kind’ by sacrificing my rights, safety, sports etc. The best I can do with that kind of person is polite acquaintance based on a mutual understanding that we don’t discuss that subject.

Ineverlose · 15/07/2024 10:08

I think you make a very good point but tbh I find it very hard to the point of impossible to be around people who don’t understand the trans issue

PurpleSparkledPixie · 15/07/2024 09:28

I am fine with different political leanings. I am fine with people believing in many different things. But I find I'm starting to go down the path of feeling that a person believing TWAW is akin to them being a racist. Their belief is harming others. And that is where I draw my line.

I don't know why you brought in diets or the lottery shrugs

Brainworm · 15/07/2024 09:24

Could you be friends with someone who thinks of themselves as a feminist but includes some males in their definition of 'women'? Would this preclude you being friends with them?

I think social media points to this being the case.

OP posts:
ZeldaFighter · 15/07/2024 09:18

All but one of my best friends disagree with me politically. We had a bit of political chat during the election campaign but from a basis of respect for each other's opinions.

We're all terfs though 😀