RSHE: Who decides? Schools? Parents? Government? Is there a collaborative way to resolve competing rights?

Unfair. I've given multiple solutions actually.

I agree. And I think everyone's spent more than enough of their time explaining things to that poster now. All we get back is strops and a refusal to reflect. It is the definition of pointless.

Hnestly Cassie, you are a good example of why I don't want teachers teaching my kids anything about sexual health. An utter inability to understand boundaries, why not everyone believes exactly the same things about sex, much less why people have certain beliefs or how they fit into a larger worldview.

That, and the deep belief that that state has every right to decide what kids should know and believe.

Always accusations. Never solutions.

OK, so have I understood this right? You are advocating teaching the facts about sex and contraception, including acknowledgement that some religions think contraception is a sin. And that teachers must check the content for any instances of "boundary crossing" or potential to trigger students who may have been abused.

Does it therefore follow that discussion of sex as part of a relationship (I.e. more than the pure mechanics) is not something you believe should be covered in school?

How does your approach safeguard teenage girls from inadvertently getting involved in a coercive, controlling or abusive relationship?

How should schools educate children about healthy relationships and coercive control without discussing sex and boundaries?

We know coercive control and abuse is an issue in teenage relationships; we know without intervention, people who have been in an abusive relationship (as abuser or victim) are likely to repeat that experience throughout their lives.

To me, it's not "safeguarding" to avoid teaching children the skills they need to recognise abusive relationships. And I can't see how a school could teach that in a way that complies with your guidelines.

And just to offer some clarity, our aims and who we are are clearly stated on our website. They have not changed since we launched 5 years ago.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/who-we-are/

You seem to think you know a lot about us for someone who "hasn't looked into us much."

We constantly say throughout all of our resources that good quality sex education is essential for safeguarding.

This blog post sums up what good quality looks like.

https://merchedcymru.wales/2022/03/10/safeguarding-needs-strong-boundaries/?fbclid=IwAR30-rb2tkyV3kTeXXfdmcyCLMzKqUCovDNqhYzj2NDayW7VmG8JJj5EY

And this transcript also helpful:
https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2022/03/21/child-q-safeguarding-and-sex-education/

I read the original research paper and agreed with its findings.

Even your photo is misleading. Children drawing with chalk on a path, primary age, accompanying an article about a topic being taught to older teenagers.

I'm not sure why you've switched from campaigning about gender ideology in schools to campaigning (without much clarity) about RHSE.

What would "high quality" sex education look like? What are you campaigning for exactly?

Oh, regarding your question I'm a mother and a protector of women's rights. I also know how to critique a research article and how to spot over stated arguments and false equivalences.

Edited to add: and a CSA survivor myself and better RHSE at school would have definitely helped me. Not that my experiences count as they don't fit the narrative.

You clearly did not read the article on play doh genitals properly @CassieMaddox. We had significant contributions from a RSE teacher and we consulted with survivors of CSA.

As for our credentials, our group includes health, education and safeguarding professionals. We have been called upon to give evidence to WESC.

Can I ask what your experience is in safeguarding?

Don't forget you said it ignored "loads of feminism" as though that's a considered, serious, or relevant point

This one
https://www.google.com/amp/s/safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2023/02/05/the-school-of-sexuality-education/amp/

When you read the research paper about the purpose of the play doh vulvas and the felt tips it is not at all as you have portrayed it. It's about giving teenagers a way into some quite difficult topics around sexual assault and harassment. It's not about adults lecturing children about how to make a vulva.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you are a grassroots volunteer organisation and so I'm interested why you feel qualified to define what "good quality" sex education is? You'd need to start with what the purpose of sex education is and how you measure "quality", which is subjective.

Could you point to anything we have ever said that indicates we want sex education banned? Good quality sex education is an essential element of safeguarding. We see very little good quality sex education.

The antifeminist bit is claiming that shame around masturbation is a myth and that young people can be relied upon to discover their own bodies in private.

We know young women experience societal pressure to be ashamed of their bodies; that female genitalia are seem as dirty, complicated and unreliable and that sexual pleasure is presented as the domain of the man. This is compounded at the moment by streaming porn focussed on acts that are painful and degrading for women. There's loads of research about this. It's all being overlooked by the author who is busy building a strawman that the original article is teaching the "specifics of masturbation" or "extensively teaching" masturbation.

I find the original article that SSA were critiquing a bit OTT in terms of sex positivity but if you actually boil it down what the author was saying was in sex education it should made clear that masturbation is healthy, not harmful, and that learning about your own body and what you find pleasurable will help sex be more fun later. I don't think this is controversial.

Unfortunately it's starting to come across to me like SSA just want sex education banned altogether.

What article on the other thread? It would be helpful if you could link it.

Hi @CassieMaddox, what is it about SSA you are specifically concerned about?

A timely article on teaching masturbation to children. I know who I'm concerned about. It's not SSA:

https://x.com/safeschoolsuk/status/1812935786393969104?s=46&t=WHoOZZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2024/07/14/what-is-wrong-with-using-masturbation-as-a-tool-for-sex-education/

@CassieMaddox What part specifically did you think was awful and anti feminist?

I have to admit that I can't understand the rationale for teaching specifics of masturbation to kids. It's not the same as discussing boundaries and consent.

Thats an awful article that completely ignore loads of feminism and research on sexuality, as well as misrepresentation the paper involved.
I haven't looked too closely at SSA but this article and the one on the other thread is making me quite concerned about them.

I strongly disagree.
A key reason why teenage pregnancy rates have fallen is education around safe sex, and access to contraception.

Now we have an epidemic of sexual violence and misogyny. Educating particularly boys about healthy relationships and consent is vital.

There is no other avenue to do this reliably other than schools.

I'm trying to be charitable. I suppose it might be better to say the majority of teachers are relatively sensible, compared to the wackaloons who dominate the NEU.

the majority of sensible teachers

I'd love to think this is true.

In my school ("outstanding") secondary, the vast, vast majority of teachers are absolutely fucking clueless.

I don't think you'd find many who objected to facts like how biology works, what to expect with puberty, what kinds of birth control are available and whether they work, STIs, and what kinds of things are legal or illegal, rape and sexual assault

They are actually exactly the sort of things that parents object to being taught. Most Summer Terms, you'll find a sadface local paper article somewhere on how parents they mean fathers are up in arms at x school, saying that 'children should be children' with specific reference to their daughter (it's never a son in my experience) having nightmares about periods/childbirth or that it'll just encourage them to go and try things out now boys know what parts to touch.