Used an 'all genders' bathroom today

It was to make people with trans identities feel more comfortable, but at the expense of everyone else - particularly women and girls.

There's a theme park in the super liberal, relaxed Netherlands that went gender neutral for its new toilets in a new bit of the park. What this means in practice is two places to go in - one signposted with urinals and cubicles, one with just cubicles. Without fail all the women were using the just cubicles and all the men using the urinals and cubicles. I saw one man head into the just cubicles bit, do a double take when he realised it was just women and then reverse as if he had got the wrong toilets and head to the other side. Essentially, everyone was treating it like the toilets were the male/female ones found in the rest of the park.
The idea that wanting single sex toilets is some odd, prudish English thing and everyone else on "the continent" is terribly sophisticated and above such matters is nonsense. Its a fairly universal human thing to want some privacy from the opposite sex when you use the toilet. The only people who really genuinely want to be around members of the opposite sex at such times are a bit odd (and the last people I would want around me).

Not necessarily....if enough people complain or tell venues that they don't like this arrangement. It's the same in the new Aviva Studios in Manchester. A very uncomfortable experience for most - and totally unnecessary.

If there's an 'any gender' one then maybe that's what women should use ? Trans identifying men will of course only use the women's, and men will use the men's, so we should have the any gender one to ourselves!

In addition, cafes with their contained toilets don't tend to be places where a lot of alcohol is drank, whereas all my experience of the communal mixed sex bathrooms has been. Probably one reason why cafe loos tend to be slightly cleaner.

There's a big difference between a single use bathroom with sink in one room in a cafe, and a multi-person use mixed sex toilet facility with cubicles, urinals and sinks all together.

The former might be dirty but it's safe. The latter is neither clean nor safe for women and female children.

Men use bathrooms functionally and don't give much of a shit (pun intended) about the environment. For women, public bathrooms are a place not only to excrete but also to manage periods, do make up, sort our appearance, and as a sanctuary away from men. For a whole host of social historical reasons, womens bathrooms are MORE THAN just a place to excrete and therefore they should be kept safe and single sex.

The Times commissioned a survey a few years ago which found that in all stranger-on-stranger sexual assaults in public places, more than 60% took place in a changing or bathroom facility that was mixed sex.

This surely isn’t a genuine question

what was the thinking behind bringing them in in the first place? Is it a cost saving exercise?

My only real experience of this is the National Portrait Gallery in London. One long corridor with loos off to each side, each self-contained with loo, sink, hand-drier and sanitary bin. I don't think there are urinals, but can't remember if there's an individual sign on each door to indicate this.

Obviously because they're self-contained you don't encounter issues like hand-washing next to the opposite sex/having to put things in a sanitary bin with the opposite sex there, but I do still feel slightly on edge in them and my impression is that plenty of others (both sexes) do too; there's a definite sense of people sidling past each other to get to and from the loos, men avoiding eye contact with women and vice versa.

It's not a relaxing experience, even if there's nothing overtly 'wrong' with the set-up.

There are separate male and female toilets in a completely traditional set up at the Watershed - accessed via the cafe, rather than the ones in the lobby by the cinema entrances. They even have a basket of sanitary stuff in the women’s. I was there on Saturday so I know that’s the case.

I went on holiday to Turkey a few years ago and all the loos were segregated with attendents on duty. One European guy tried to enter the ladies and was promptly told ladies only, mens facilities outside. He then said he was female and the look the attendant gave him was hilarious. He decided not to push his look further and went to the mens toilets instead.

TIMs will continue to use the women's. They do not want third spaces. All GN toilets do is create more facilities for men. Men have a choice of three toilets now, actually, four if we include disabled. Women and girls lose out, as ever.

No we are not going to have to get used to it. The Equality Act allows for segregation on the grounds of 'sex' not 'gender'.

Welcome to the world of the disabled where loos are regularly abused.

The toileting of some people beggars belief. I feel sorry for the staff who have to/should look after them.

Completely agree! All of those who it 'doesn't matter for me' can use mixed sex ones to their heart's content. As long as there are single sex provisions for the not as cool, inclusive, progressive, kind and forward thinking people who don't like them. Cater for all.

I may have been confused but followed the signs at station yesterday, down the stairs to the refurbished toilets which were advertised as all gender toilets but then at the bottom of the stairs there was a sign for women's to the left and men's to the right. In other places (theatre) that has meant one mixed block of toilets.

I personally don't have a problem with them as long as they are properly designed with enclosed cubicles. I've been in a lot like that (they're quite common where I live), and I have never felt unsafe.

But I can see the issue around potential risk to women. I think they have to be very well thought out and designed for purpose in order to work - not just sticking a gender neutral sign on an existing toilet.

I know that theatre well - when they had single sex lavatories. The Ladies’ facilities were always clean and there were enough of them.

Sounds like regress rather than progress.

Yeah, some posters are desperate to pretend womens toilets are dirtier than men’s. You can guess why.
You can tell when they make up bullshit about finding shit on the seat in the women’s, - or how they ‘used to be a cleaner and the women’s toilets were always far worse than the men’s’.
When women’s experiences simply does not match this.
They’ll keep insisting though.

Yeah, it's a bit racist isn't it? Those awful third world savages can't be trusted with "all gender" toilets and are a danger to women but our lovely gents in the civilised countries are perfectly safe.

I've just come back from hols where mixed sex toilets seem to be the norm. In galleries etc they're often hived off in a quiet part of the building and I felt quite uncomfortable using them. They were all perfectly clean and pleasant and nobody actually made me feel uncomfortable - I just didn't like them.

I've never (yet) been in mixed-sex toilets with the urinal and cubicle arrangement described here. I'd have backed out in 0.01 milliseconds! But I have been in venues with mixed-sex fully-enclosed cubicles located down a long corridor - and it has not been infrequent to walk past to see a bloke pissing without having closed the door, nor is it unusual to find the seats splashed with urine (it's almost a relief to find a loo with the seat up that I have to put down, in the hope that it hasn't been splashed). And I operate on the assumption that any previous male occupant won't have washed their hands, so after I wash my hands I have to think about how to hygienically unlock and open the door.

But on reflection and reading the posts of the ladies who adore mixed-sex public facilities, I'm perfectly happy for there to be mixed-sex (sorry, All Gender) toilets at a venue, as long as there is also proper and well-signposted provision of single sex toilets.

Furthermore, I am perfectly happy for said All Gender loos to consist of rows of open urinals next to a few flimsy cubicles. That way, all the Righteous folx can properly demonstrate how lovely it is all sharing together and nobody minds, and how men's pee/poo doesn't stink and how women are apparently just as dirty as men, whilst enjoying their inclusive joy and polishing their haloes.

And all we old dinosaurs can use the single-sex toilets like almost all women, and all decent men, much prefer.

What a sorry state of affairs .

I avoid the Barbican and old vic for this reason

I used mixed sex toilets at Bristol Beacon recently, same experience as many - piss all over the seats and floor, men using the cubicles as urinals and not bothering to close the doors. Please complain, whenever you come across this. I complained and they sent a message back to say there were also single sex toilets, but the mixed ones are the ones closest to the auditorium and where staff were directing people to go. I also asked if they’d surveyed their customers to see if anyone was happy with the new toilet layout but they are ignoring that question. Men won’t like them because they now have to queue, women don’t like them because of lack of privacy, dignity and how filthy they are. Who is benefiting? Please please complain, every single time you come across them.

I guess the only option is to use the disabled toilet. At least then you have the room to yourself. They aren’t any cleaner though. The whole situation is horrible and I avoid public toilets as much as I can these days.