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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jess Phillips appointed a minister to focus on tackling violence against women and girls and domestic violence.

317 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2024 23:48

Jess Phillips has been appointed to the Labour government as a minister, focusing on tackling violence against women and girls and domestic violence.

The Labour MP has been a vocal campaigner on the subject, and has become known for reading out a list of all the women killed by men in the UK every year on International Women's Day in parliament.

Ms Phillips had the role of shadow domestic violence and safeguarding minister from 2020 to 2023 under Sir Keir Starmer but resigned over the party's stance on the Middle East conflict in November.

She was one of 56 Labour MPs - including eight frontbenchers - to vote in favour of an SNP motion calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Middle East.

This defied the Labour whip, and so Ms Phillips had to step aside.

More ... https://news.sky.com/story/jess-phillips-made-minister-following-frontbench-resignation-over-middle-east-13175726

Jess Phillips made minister following frontbench resignation over Middle East

The Birmingham Yardley MP has been appointed to the Home Office team, working under Home Secretary Yvette Cooper. She previously held a shadow role for domestic violence and safeguarding but stood down last year.

https://news.sky.com/story/jess-phillips-made-minister-following-frontbench-resignation-over-middle-east-13175726

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Zita60 · 10/07/2024 07:14

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:42

😂 yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

I’m angry that you’re hijacking feminism and women’s rights by punching down to another more marginalised community.

I’m angry that you’re using exactly the same rhetoric that was used against gay rights 50 years ago.

And I’m definitely angry that you all seem to be too ignorant and in trenched to recognise all of this.

Hey - that Stalin. Mostly bad ey? But at least he knew what a woman was.

Actually, from our point of view, you’re hijacking feminism by redefining women to include men who think they’re women.

Transwomen have their own struggles in society and deserve compassion and support. But their experiences of life are not the same as women’s. Feminism has always been about women and women’s experiences and oppression.

Shortshriftandlethal · 10/07/2024 07:12

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Women are definitely real; they have reality; and if you are going to tackle the issue of predatory and/or violent male behaviour towrds women and girls you are going to need to ensure that you protect single sex spaces, for one.....which are there precisely for that reason.

If you cannot adequately define what a woman is, clearly, in the first instance, and the law provides no clarity, either, how do you think Jess Phillips could go about her task?

Tell me, what do you see as the " reality" of women's rights? What do you mean by "women's rights"? Can you define what these rights are?

Did you read about the 4 Kent schoolgirls who were sexually assaulted in the school toilets after their headteacher decided to turn the singles sex toilets into mixed sex toilets? It was just recently?

CurlewKate · 10/07/2024 07:12

Damn. Another podcast lost!

Seriously- it's brilliant news. Good to hear that Starmer isn't scared of strong women.

Zita60 · 10/07/2024 07:04

MistyGreenAndBlue · 10/07/2024 01:46

Except it HASN'T "moved on" if by that you mean "moved forward". If anything, we're regressing back to the bad old days of restrictive gender roles. You really can't see that?

That’s what I find so depressing about gender ideology, its reliance on regressive gender stereotypes.

Fifty years ago I had a Saturday job in a wool and embroidery shop. Our customers were mostly women and girls, but one regular was an elderly man who liked doing needlepoint and often came in for supplies.

One day, a mother came in with her young son. She was nonplussed that he showed an interest in embroidery and wanted her to buy him some threads and fabric so he could try it. Ardent young feminist that I was, I told her about the elderly man who liked doing needlepoint, implying that there was nothing wrong with a man or boy doing something traditionally thought of as “feminine”.

Nowadays I suspect the poor lad would have been encouraged to think he was really a girl, just because he liked traditionally feminine things like embroidery.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 10/07/2024 07:03

Weather vane Jess. Of "spousal veto" fame, designed to trap women in abusive marriages.

<breaks out bunting>

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 10/07/2024 07:02

This is fabulous news! I love Jess Phillips and really admire the work that she's done in this area. Plus she's principled and gobby (in the nicest possible way), will stand up for what she believes in and make her voice heard. Great decision from KS.

FrancescaContini · 10/07/2024 06:45

This is excellent news. So important to have a woman in this role who has a proven track record of working with victims of DV and women’s refuges. She’s clear, articulate and passionate on this issue.

ThreeEggOmlette · 10/07/2024 06:36

It is inevitable at some point in her work, that clarification will be needed on the terms 'women and girls' and the type and nature of services needed to support them to avoid/resist/recover from and survive violence from males.

Agree.
And I think Jess knows exactly what a woman is, but she's a politician.
Sometimes it's easier to effect change from the inside.
I'm glad she's got the appointment.

Chickenuggetsticks · 10/07/2024 06:31

I have my fingers crossed. I think her recent experiences may also clarify further for her how women are specifically targeted. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, it was appalling behaviour but I really hope she’s able to connect that with the treatment meted out to gender critical women which is vastly more vicious than that experienced by gender critical men (on the whole).

Men will bully, harrass and intimidate women to get what they want.

ilovesooty · 10/07/2024 06:31

Avatartar · 10/07/2024 01:06

So pleased Jess has got this role, think she’s brilliant

Absolutely.

Soontobe60 · 10/07/2024 06:24

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 00:29

The phrase is just so utterly cliche at this point. According to your description, Putin ‘knows what a woman is’. Hitler ‘knew what a woman was’. The fucking Taliban ‘know what a woman is’. Have you not noticed that those who subscribe to your narrow definition are also the ones most likely to rape and degrade women, keep them barefoot and pregnant and earning less? I’ll take feminism that recognises trans women and also looks closely at domestic violence, childcare prices and parental leave.

Really? VAWG should only focus on females. If there is a concern regarding violence against transwomen, then their specific situation needs to be dealt with in a specific manner. Or are you implying that VATW is exactly the same as VAWG? Including males who identify as women in the same category as females does neither demographic any good.

Iwishihadariver · 10/07/2024 06:17

This is very promising. Jess Phillips is a very forceful communicator and will make sure her brief is front and centre across Government activity.

It is inevitable at some point in her work, that clarification will be needed on the terms 'women and girls' and the type and nature of services needed to support them to avoid/resist/recover from and survive violence from males.

We will be ready to help Jess say the right words.

AlisonDonut · 10/07/2024 05:04

I'm interested in how this will play out to be honest, what with no prison space and men getting bailed left right and centre even when caught abducting young girls.

Crack on Jess and good luck.

BezMills · 10/07/2024 05:01

This is a really good choice by the new govt and JP is absolutely the woman for the job. KS has been getting a lot of very sceptical side-eye on here (threads passim), not least by me.
This is good, well done KS, moar of this.

yesmen · 10/07/2024 03:37

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:42

😂 yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

I’m angry that you’re hijacking feminism and women’s rights by punching down to another more marginalised community.

I’m angry that you’re using exactly the same rhetoric that was used against gay rights 50 years ago.

And I’m definitely angry that you all seem to be too ignorant and in trenched to recognise all of this.

Hey - that Stalin. Mostly bad ey? But at least he knew what a woman was.

Re the gay rights thing - gender folk are really nasty to gey people.

I do not like that.

By removing their RIGHT to same sex attraction.

Not gender.

Not a spectrum.

Same SEX.

It is so agressively anti gay that I am campaigning again for gay rights.

yesmen · 10/07/2024 03:34

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:42

😂 yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

I’m angry that you’re hijacking feminism and women’s rights by punching down to another more marginalised community.

I’m angry that you’re using exactly the same rhetoric that was used against gay rights 50 years ago.

And I’m definitely angry that you all seem to be too ignorant and in trenched to recognise all of this.

Hey - that Stalin. Mostly bad ey? But at least he knew what a woman was.

Easy on there tiger.

That rage is not good for your health.

That marginalised group you are talking about managed to get almost every government in western world to change their method of classification from biological to gender.
They managed to get the departments of education to say that sex is a spectrum, the justice department to arrest and imprison people who questioned that, get the medical profession to join in by carving up healthy bodies and giving the ones who don't like being carved pills to do the altering.

Could you please explain how that is marginalised?

yesmen · 10/07/2024 03:20

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:22

I mean. Literally. Not all men are like that. As a group they’re fucking awful but I have a husband and a son and they’re not. My son is 1. I refuse to talk shit about an actual baby and reduce him to just his genitals. I also refuse to reduce myself to just my genitals.

as a group, boomers have fucked us millennials over with your free uni and cheap housing. But I’m sure you’ll all be on to tell me how it wasn’t like that for you in your cheap rented flat and no assets. Not all boomers right?

It is not genitals baby - it is ALL about gonads...

Discotrousers · 10/07/2024 03:17

IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 02:14

yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

If you had made the effort to inform yourself before crashing in here like an out of control toddler, you would know that mumsnet create a separate thread for those who didn't want or dont accept the sex class analysis of feminis.

Its called Feminism Chat.

Why wouldn't you want to go and share your thought with those who think like you.

Why come on here with your whiny intolerance of older women, many of whom helped create the rights you now have, with this highly individualistic ranting.

Its about as useful and appropriate as being meat eater turning up at a vegetarian restuarant and screaming abuse a customers for eating vegitables.

But if you want to carry on with your relentless negativity you must be aware that you are achieving exactly the opposite of what is presumably your intention, to change our minds.

Sorry to further infuriate you but is just isnt going to work.

Many, many posters and readers on this board have day to day experience of teenage temper tantrums.

Has it occured to you that you just dont understand what others are saying, and this is what is driving you into this pantomime over the top performance of outrage.

Signed a totally unreconstructed dinosaur.

Edited

And so say all (well, most) of us 👏👏👏👏

yesmen · 10/07/2024 03:06

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 00:42

I’m guessing you all came up through the feminism of the 80s, read a lot of Germaine Greer and refuse to believe the world has moved on without you

Nope.

yesmen · 10/07/2024 03:03

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 00:38

It’s not ironic at all. Check who’s in your camp. Those who hold to a very narrow view of what a woman is, tend to also be those who subscribe to a very narrow definition of what a woman can do.

Actually ...no.

You are wrong.

BurrosTail · 10/07/2024 02:47

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Male privilege feels kinda real to me now that my employer expects us women (the real cunty ones) be fine showering next to male cock because he has lady-feelz. Open plan showers, you see. Can’t use them anymore.

Do you even realise how out of touch your last sentence sounds?

Ger1atricMillennial · 10/07/2024 02:39

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 10/07/2024 01:36

Hippo, you're clearly very angry about a lot of things.

I'm not sure why you want to blame the posters here.

Nobody is reducing anybody to their genitals - that's a very disingenuous argument. But 2 sexes have evolved for a reason - it's how most animals reproduce (because it enables a greater variety of genetic material than asexual reproduction).

The 2 sexes have different genitals. That is a mostly irrelevant fact. It makes no difference to what job you do or clothes you can wear, or how you like to have your hair. But occasionally it matters - like in healthcare or single sex spaces.

Recognising that this difference exists is not 'reducing people to their genitals'.

I would like to add a few things here.

  1. Sex is the first thing that is established about a human.
  2. Sex is not about genitals, it's about gametes. The producers of the large gametes are female, and the small gametes are male. This is consistent in all organisms that sexually reproduces i.e. why it is the male seahorse that is pregnant and not the female. In humans' females are born with all their gametes and males produce them after puberty. This is why humans cannot change sex.
  3. The human reproduction system is based on sexual dimorphism. Part of this is that the male is on average physically larger and stronger than the female. This is likely because we have evolved from an ancestor based on polygamy and males' reproductive success depended on their ability to fight other males. This is the reason that men have beards, as it significantly reduces the likelihood jaw fractures during fighting.

I have no doubt that there are a small number of individuals who experience such hatred of their sex-identifying characteristics that they are unable to function in society as the sex that they are. However, the constant denial of sex dysmorphia and demands on society in general regarding Self-ID are the worst thing to happen to acceptance of trans-people. It requires that people have to consistently deny reality which (as demonstrated) is simply unachievable long-term.

Ger1atricMillennial · 10/07/2024 02:19

I am glad that Jess Phillips has this role.

I am concerned that the focus on women's safety falls to much on women to solve when the issue is insecure and disempowered men who take their frustrations out on women.

I would love to see a man in a similar role to look after men and dismantle the deep misogyny that exists in male culture.

IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 02:14

yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

If you had made the effort to inform yourself before crashing in here like an out of control toddler, you would know that mumsnet create a separate thread for those who didn't want or dont accept the sex class analysis of feminis.

Its called Feminism Chat.

Why wouldn't you want to go and share your thought with those who think like you.

Why come on here with your whiny intolerance of older women, many of whom helped create the rights you now have, with this highly individualistic ranting.

Its about as useful and appropriate as being meat eater turning up at a vegetarian restuarant and screaming abuse a customers for eating vegitables.

But if you want to carry on with your relentless negativity you must be aware that you are achieving exactly the opposite of what is presumably your intention, to change our minds.

Sorry to further infuriate you but is just isnt going to work.

Many, many posters and readers on this board have day to day experience of teenage temper tantrums.

Has it occured to you that you just dont understand what others are saying, and this is what is driving you into this pantomime over the top performance of outrage.

Signed a totally unreconstructed dinosaur.

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IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 02:01

Why is that? Why don't the board monitors want us talking about this?

Exactly

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