Waterstones come out as GC and fire TRA for social media post

Yep, these Mens Rights Activists who attack JKR don't actually read and take in what she says. They accuse her of their own mindset, attitudes and actions. They assume everyone is as lowbrow us them.

Bookbanning, is FACISM. Who were these MRAs calling names? Feminists were called 'nazis' I think? I have not once, ever heard a feminist advocate for bookburning or bookbanning.

This is a quote from Graham Linehan on twitter. If he thinks women who support LGBT/trans rights are "the worst people in the world" then he doesn't get out much does he? How ridiculous.

Handmaidens supporting MENS RIGHTS at the expense of women, makes them the lowest of low and the worst people. Only misogynist bigots and Male Supremacists can't see this. They truly are scum, imo, to advocate to treat women and girls as if we aren't human. And that is their end goal. Their purpose. And has been all along.

Agree this is how it came across but her defenders are saying 'it was clearly her personal property' because of a tweet she made after the fact, sigh.

I don't think booksellers (unless they own the shop) have any right saying who good/bad authors are, when there are a bazillion of them with a clouded history, but we may still want to read what they have to say, even if only to judge them against it.

Is she busy throwing out Neil Gaiman because of the accusations this week (at the very least he has admitted to bathing with the young nanny on day one)? I doubt it.

“Oh no. The consequences of my actions.”

She said destroying the several copies of the book. Most of us don't have several copies of one book at home. Quite obvious imo that she was talking about her employer's stock. Also they wouldn't want a book-burner working for them.

I could have been considered a ‘bookseller’ as I worked for a publisher and had direct influence over the books we sold. I think ‘what does the title bookseller mean’ is a very valid question.

@Humtum

Firstly, it wasn't a minor slip, it was a statement about destroying books, from a person who is supposed to support authors.

Publishers should, by law, not discriminate against people due to their lawfully held views, but they do, and it is disgraceful. Hopefully more people will be sacked for displaying this discrimination so blatantly.

I'm glad you like the Guardian book reviews but it is the opinion of one person and you need to read the book yourself to get a sense of it. Yes I have read it. Not my cup of tea but I wouldn't tear it up and 'pop' it in the bin, even if the author was Hitler.

People captured by trans ideology are often childish and weepy - my sweeping statement, but it isn't disproved by your assertion that some trans people are also in demanding jobs. People in demanding jobs can also be childish and weepy.

Annaliese Dodds, indeed I will 'watch this space' but I'm not reassured by her, or any other politian's waffle.

Non sex-segregated changing rooms and toilets exclude certain religious people (women) from using them. They are 'forbidden' by the rules of their culture or religion, or by their own beliefs about biological sex. Not just Muslims, some Jewish sects, some Christian ones. For male bodied people to demand access to female spaces based on their own (religious?) beliefs about an internalised sense of 'gender' is entitled. It excludes existing groups of women, and they could not care less. If trans is a real religion then perhaps they need a third space, in order not to clash with the existing rights of certain religious women to use facilities freely. Perhaps you wouldn't call this 'racist' but since the majority of the women in these cultures with these religions are non-white, that was the term I used.

Bookseller equals shop assistant in this context but can also mean 'person who orders books from publishers' or 'owner of independent bookstore.' For Tilly it is a fancy term for a shelf stacker with a masters in art history/literature or similar.

It was a perfectly reasonable question not snide in the slightest

i was a style consultant for a big high street brand for 4 years

sounds really impressive now Ive written it like that….i was a shop assistant

Thanks for explaining. I was trying to find out about the function of her job to understand how much actual influence she has in terms of restricting customers' access to books.

I wasn't sure if being a "bookseller" meant she was physically working in a shop selling books or if being a "bookseller" was something to do with being an influencer and promoting books on her blog on behalf of Waterstones or if she was a freelance agent-type person who sells books to the head office of Waterstones to stock in their shops.

I am bemused at the thousands of books that Tilly may have sold as being some kind of appeal to authority. Tilly may be very qualified, I don’t doubt it. However, when you work in a bookstore, you are there to sell books. And if you have been there a long enough, I would expect most Waterstones employees to be able to claim
this.

The claim to have sold thousands of books for an employer when that is your main purpose at that work place, is really meaningless as an appeal to authority. Or was it another attempt at claiming special influencer status? Because Tilly claims to have influenced so many people to buy books from Waterstones when they would not have done so otherwise?

@Lovenothate Sorry but you are ignorant, and your user name is very hypocritical. A FEMINIST AUTHOR didn't get a misogynistic, femphobic bigot fired. In fact, the author hadn't even commented to Waterstones. Other people, namely women who were horrified at the employees hateful bigotry contacted Waterstones. It appears she is rather troublesome and some say she was already on her last warning. It was all her own fault. But keep blaming the innocent feminist author, instead of the hate-filled internalised misogynist handmaiden for Fucking Around and Finding Out.

I've been a bookseller, part-time, full-time, in huge shops and small ones.

I would say that most booksellers are over-qualified and extremely knowledgeable. But it is at the end of the day a shop job. Tilly works weekends. She is probably not having meetings with publishing reps (I don't think anyone from the shop floor probably is at Waterstones). It is a physical job (being on feet all day, carrying books) that requires dexterity of mind as well (do you know a blue book about Italy?), but ultimately is no better or worse than any other shop job (if you love the product).

She may help sell thousands of books but some of those are through affiliate links that are nothing to do with Waterstones.

I like the meme that says 'I wanted to end her career, not mine!'

There is only one comment on the article now - I guess the Independent didn't like them!

What's snide? I genuinely don't know what a "bookseller" is in this context. "Bookseller" sounds a bit like "showrunner" or something specific.

If it's shop assistant then that's helpful to know. I've worked in plenty of shops - perhaps you think that is a lowly job or something - I certainly don't. And I made no comment on her views. Please try reading before replying.

I did not read it as a snide comment. The term 'bookseller' does lend itself to some other job function.

It's a fancy name for a shop assistant who probably has a post-grad degree in their subject area and reads hundreds of books a year to keep up with their subject knowledge. There's no need to be snide about someone's job just because you don't like their views.

I ordered a copy of Sexed by Susannah Rustin, from Waterstones, to celebrate!

Forgive my ignorance but what exactly is a "bookseller" in this context?

Is it a fancy name for a shop assistant at Waterstones or is it some kind of external role involving recommending books to Waterstones?

Humtum, I couldn't make sense of your previous posts. The (n)etiquette here is to use the quote button or to copy-paste & bold format points from previous posters to which you're directly replying. It makes it easier to understand what you're trying to say.

I can’t follow what you are saying humtum either but I am very much for correct data sets for accountability, like you. More evidence is definitely a good thing. In the absence of a consensus of opinion, you should look at facts and data.

I can't follow what you're saying really. What do you mean by she's got 99% of her 9-5 right? - Tilly made one minor slip. No history of warnings from her employer. She is a champion at what she does - has sold literally 10000s of books.

I would take reviews of a book with a pinch of salt if you haven't actually read the book itself - The Guardian give pretty good reviews and I trust their appraisal. Have you read it? What's your take?

Publishing, being the most captured of all the captured industries, is filled with captured writers, so I'm not suprised there are hordes of them jumping to applaud Dalcher's cancelling - not sure what you mean here. I think those that are and are not allys of Trans people would probably like to know which publishers support which writers.

Can't see your point re. Trans MPs etc, so what? People in positions of power nad/or academics are not immune from being childish and weepy - the comment was on people who support trans / or ar trans being childish and weepy. That's incorrect given the example of a few people in demanding posts - NB - just an example.

Also I can't see what you mean re Annalise Dodds. Any politician can say general waffly things about 'support' or 'breaking new ground' but what does that actually equate to? - watch this space (no pun intended)

I saw something by a trans person on X today where they pointed out that the definition of oppression is that there are no safe public toilets you have a right to use and feel safe in. I thought, that's what I've been saying about muslim women who are forbidden to use non sex segregrated facitilites. Trans entitlement is exclusive, and racist. - Muslim women are not forbidden, trans people are not entitled and I do not know what the reference to racism in this paragraph indicates.

Feel free to share the link to the X post you are referring to if that helps.

@Humtum I can't follow what you're saying really. What do you mean by she's got 99% of her 9-5 right?

I would take reviews of a book with a pinch of salt if you haven't actually read the book itself

Publishing, being the most captured of all the captured industries, is filled with captured writers, so I'm not suprised there are hordes of them jumping to applaud Dalcher's cancelling

Can't see your point re. Trans MPs etc, so what? People in positions of power nad/or academics are not immune from being childish and weepy

Also I can't see what you mean re Annalise Dodds. Any politician can say general waffly things about 'support' or 'breaking new ground' but what does that actually equate to?

I saw something by a trans person on X today where they pointed out that the definition of oppression is that there are no safe public toilets you have a right to use and feel safe in. I thought, that's what I've been saying about muslim women who are forbidden to use non sex segregrated facitilites. Trans entitlement is exclusive, and racist.

You know that TRANS MPs ..... Deputy Prime Minister (of Belgium).... and space plasma physicist scientists.... exist...

The Vox writer has done two helpful things - firstly, they mentioned the database of evidence showing rejection responses by publishers that will appeal to a variety of folk.

Secondly, the writer who is in a position of power + influence relative to a shelf stacker has amplified the comment by Tilly through her socials -short term, Tilly lost her job, but the attention has likely aided Tilly watch this space

I've seen other writers on Twitter - unrelated and related to gender question the actions of this writer. It seems a bit desperate and it caused me to look up reviews of VOX.

There's a lot of appetite for kind, considered and progressive conversation around gender. The more accountability, data, peoples voices (all voices), evidence can only be a good thing.

[anticipating the single replies of being called a TRA for this post. - If not being a bigot makes me a TRA then sign. me. up 🌻]

'Speaking to The Independent, Ms Fitzgerald added: “I’m absolutely devastated that this escalated to me losing a job a love."
"I acknowledge that my comments were a violation of the social media policy, and I did apologise for any trouble caused, however, I think the punishment was disproportionate and a warning would have been more appropriate.”

Yeah... posting on social media questioning your former employer for sacking you due to your comments on social media is a not a clever move and doesn’t make you sound particularly sensible or employable

"I just want to be really clear that this decision came from head office - from someone I probably don’t even know and who doesn’t know me,”

Keep digging...

Tilly has 99% got her 9-5 right as a champion and well respected book seller.
I'm not sure you could give the same champion review of this writer given her reviews. Whilst I appreciate Tilly's views as a safeguard to bigotry / people benefiting from bigotry, binning books should never be promoted.

Meanwhile Minister for Women and Equalities, Anneliese Dodds is off to a stellar start "I will deliver our plans to support women and girls, advance race equality, break new ground for LGBT+ rights and stand up for disabled people." https://x.com/AnnelieseDodds