Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is calling 'people' 'folk' part of gender ideology rewriting language norms or is it separate?

141 replies

Gofastboatsmojito · 08/07/2024 13:26

I've noticed this a lot in the last couple of years, it seems much more common in articles broadly on board with GI, pronouns, using the word Queer to describe anyone not achingly boring.

I've also noticed it coming out the mouths of my friends who are more TWAW inclined.

The word 'people' doesn't seem to have explicit links with biological realism or gender critical beliefs but it seems out of fashion in some circles.

Is this coincidence and more related to younger trendier language (!) or is it chosen for a reason?

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 08/07/2024 14:45

Regardless of whether poeople in some British regions use the word folk' colloquially, I agree that this more recent widespread usage does seem to be an Americanism - of the sort used to render 'trans folk' harmless and cuddly. I can't stand it myelf, and avoid it at all costs.

Grammarnut · 08/07/2024 14:44

The term 'folk' when used outside the North and Scotland (where it's common usage) is part of GI - so 'trans folk'.

ReignOfError · 08/07/2024 14:44

I use folk and folks regularly, from living in Scotland, the US, and areas of northern England. I’ve never thought of it as anything other than a synonym for people.

JurassicClark · 08/07/2024 14:42

Phoebefail · 08/07/2024 14:24

Is it the ending of Tom & Jerry
"That's All Folks

Looney Tunes cartoons with Porky Pig, Bugs Bunny, Roadrunner and Daffy Duck, I think.

OP, you’re right, a lot of TWAW people use ‘folk’ where otherwise we wouldn’t habitually.

Melroses · 08/07/2024 14:36

LakeTiticaca · 08/07/2024 14:33

It's been around forever, my mother used to call people folk, and I find I often do as well .
My mum also used to say "nowt so queen as folk" , nothing to do with sexuality, just means people can do strange things

Yes that is true, but is was also used as the title of a widely influential television serial about the lives of gay people, centred around Canal Street in Manchester.

Melroses · 08/07/2024 14:34

Folks is used in a more tribal context.

eg
"Folk round here are fed up with the traffic"

quoted from the post above would suggest that there is a general agreement and you and I are part of that group.

"People round here are fed up with the traffic is more formal, and more impersonal and can be used to suggest that you and I are not part of that.

LakeTiticaca · 08/07/2024 14:33

It's been around forever, my mother used to call people folk, and I find I often do as well .
My mum also used to say "nowt so queen as folk" , nothing to do with sexuality, just means people can do strange things

FictionalCharacter · 08/07/2024 14:32

There is definitely a connection between the word “folk” and gender ideology, that’s completely separate from regional uses of the word instead of “people”. It became common a few years ago to see “trans folk” all the time and “trans people” almost never. And this was from people in regions who never say “folk”.

Phoebefail · 08/07/2024 14:24

Is it the ending of Tom & Jerry
"That's All Folks

GiveMeMySoddingCokeZero · 08/07/2024 14:21

Also, to all those talking about the fact they use "folk" and "folks" and have for years, I mean yeah, I agree, it's a common existing word that's used in some places more than others and has existing connotations and usages.

But the specific usage in TRA communities is particular to them IMO, at least in the UK. It's often used in constructions like "trans folks" which are then used in sentences and contexts that I don't think would quite feel natural or idiomatic to speakers of most varieties of British English.

Like, I don't think that most British English speakers who would naturally say something like "Right folks, let's get going" or "Folk round here are fed up with the traffic" would necessarily write a sentence like "There are still challenges around access for disabled folks in the UK", which is more like the way TRAs and similar American-influenced social justice groups use it. Among those groups, "folk[s]" seems to be considered more acceptable in slightly more formal types of communication, and they also tend to have the "s" in contexts where most British speakers would omit it. I'm not saying that non-TRA Brits would never use "folks" like that, especially if they're speaking a regional variant where "folk" and "folks" are now common, but on average the TRA usage is different and reflects the online communities they're part of rather than their geographical location in the UK.

Is calling 'people' 'folk' part of gender ideology rewriting language norms or is it separate?
Pemba · 08/07/2024 14:14

Yes I think because 'folk' is more commonly used in the USA than 'people' is, particularly when trying to sound down to earth. Always sounds a bit cheesy to me, self-consciously 'folksy'. Used in this way 'folk' has a different vibe from Northern British usage, as in the phrase 'queer as folk'.

And all the trans ideology and use of language came from the USA of course, didn't it?

IsadoraQuagmire · 08/07/2024 14:12

Dinosaurlover · 08/07/2024 13:33

I've definitely noticed the link. I'm in the south and the people I know who are full on TWAW use 'folk' a lot. I've rarely noticed others using it.

Yes, it's very noticeable.

bryceQ · 08/07/2024 14:11

I use folk all the time and have for years (own a business) i initially started using it as I didn't like "guys" to me it's a more conversational way of speaking.

So I'd say Hi Folks, quick update about classes tonight

FuzzyPuffling · 08/07/2024 14:09

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 08/07/2024 14:06

"Folks" and "folx" don't sound the same at all to me. Are they supposed to?

Presumably! The only difference in spelling is the 'ks' / 'x' ,which make identical sounds, so I'm not sure why the two words would sound different!

See above for my pronunciation!

EBearhug · 08/07/2024 14:08

My aunt was very keen on using folk and folks, often before berating us for some misdemeanour, and thus it is I have a strong dislike of the word. But that dates back to the '70s. A Dutch manager was also fond of using "folks" but that could be a language thing. I know more German than Dutch but das Volk is common in German for the population or people, so Dutch could be similar. Or he was just annoying.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 08/07/2024 14:06

"Folks" and "folx" don't sound the same at all to me. Are they supposed to?

Presumably! The only difference in spelling is the 'ks' / 'x' ,which make identical sounds, so I'm not sure why the two words would sound different!

GiveMeMySoddingCokeZero · 08/07/2024 14:03

Adoption of language trends signals group membership even if the language is largely unrelated to the common interest. These people aren't all using "folk"because they're from Northern England or Ireland or wherever; they're using it because their online community uses it. There wouldn't necessarily have to be any justification for it — just the fact that it's common among that group for whatever reason would be enough for people to adopt the usage.

Same as how (purportedly) British posters who talk about bathrooms when discussing public toilets are likely to be TRAs or TRA-adjacent. Because so many of the posters in their online communities are in the US, and the commonly-used term there is bathrooms, that's what they use, and British members naturally pick up on that language and start using it, not only through plain exposure, but also because it's natural to use the language that seems particular to the social group you consider yourself part of.

FuzzyPuffling · 08/07/2024 14:03

"Folks" and "folx" don't sound the same at all to me. Are they supposed to?
("Fokes" and "follks" is my closest approximation)

Tinysoxxx · 08/07/2024 14:00

‘Guys’ for both sexes was the most popular a while back. When I was little, ‘guys’ was male.

Then I saw an email last year that guys should be replaced by folks, then another saying folx. Reason = because folx is more inclusive. The very next email from the same person said ‘hi guys’. I chuckled. It’s very rare to have hi folx, hi folks gets mentioned a bit, hi guys is still popular. I just say ‘Hello’.

veritusverity · 08/07/2024 13:58

Always used it, but I belong to a couple of folk bands, it's quite common before a gig for one of the group to say something along the line of 'right folks, first song is in G..." and we all merrily fall in with our accordion player, who tends to lead the group!
I don't think it would be so well received if he referred to us as 'people'!

FuzzyPuffling · 08/07/2024 13:57

Northerner here, I've always used it and I'm old. It never occurred to me that it has been by any appropriated by any particular group.

Beats the socks off "guys" anyway.

Percivaleverett · 08/07/2024 13:53

I thought it was an American thing. Didn’t George W Bush use it all the time? I find it really annoying personally.

FKAT · 08/07/2024 13:52

Another interesting northern phrase angle is 'nowt so queer as folk'. So I'm wondering if Queer As Folk played a part in pushing Folk into the pop culture vocab.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 08/07/2024 13:52

'Folx' is ridiculous. I've always used 'folks' though and I'm in my 50s and very much gc. I'm a teacher, and 'Right, folks...' is a pretty normal way to start addressing a group of kids for me, whatever sex they are. It sounds a bit more friendly and less patronising or authoritarian than saying class/students/children/boys/girls/boys and girls.

katseyes7 · 08/07/2024 13:49

It's quite common in some areas (Northern) and has been for a long time. Your explanation wouldn't even occur to me.
This. I'm from the North East and l realised l used 'folk' yesterday. Didn't even think about it until l read this thread.