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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Response from my MP

55 replies

exLibDem · 02/07/2024 22:58

Finally heard back from my MP. Am feeling very angry and let down. I know I'm not the only one here who feels politically homeless.

This is an extract from the response:

"I am very clear that single-sex safe spaces for women are essential and must be protected. I also recognise that trans women have the right to dignity and safety too and will need to be able to access toilets, changing rooms and other single-sex facilities when going about their daily life.

The Equality Act 2010 already entitled trans women to use women’s facilities and this happens all the time, without many of us being aware. Indeed, predatory men wishing to access a ladies’ loo or shop changing room do not need to go through any process to do so – these spaces are not policed and nor could they practically be, without checking inside women’s underwear, which would be a gross violation of all women’s rights.

We cannot exclude trans people from society or force trans women to use single-sex facilities for men because of our concerns about predatory men. The law in our country has respected people’s right to self-identify for twenty years now, with safeguards to avoid abuse.

The Equality Act protects both hard-won women’s rights and trans rights, and shows that the two are not in conflict. In the case of prisons, hospitals and refuges, entry for all people – regardless of gender – is based on a risk assessment. It is proper that individual institutions and organisations implement their own policies according to the needs and wellbeing of their service users."

OP posts:
ifIwerenotanandroid · 03/07/2024 18:48

How about this one?

Women of Dorset have contacted all those standing in the eight constituencies that cover Dorset, including Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole.
Below is the response from Michael Tomlinson (Conservative) - Mid Dorset and North Poole.
Dear Women of Dorset,

Thank you for your email and your questions. I hope that the following answers them all for you:

A woman is an adult human female. You cannot “become a woman”. You are born female, with XX chromosomes and grow up to be a woman.

I welcome the recent announcement by the Prime Minister that the Conservative Party will introduce primary legislation to clarify that the protected characteristic of sex in the Equality Act means biological sex, in addition to legislating that a person can only have one sex in the eyes of the law in the United Kingdom. This means that organisations like refuges can use the law as it was intended. I agree that Women should have the right to female-only spaces in both everyday and specialist situations – whether changing rooms or prisons. Sport should be segregated by sex. We all know that male and female bodies have different capabilities – that is why sport has always been segregated by sex, which should continue.

The Cass report is a vital part of protecting our children. I am delighted that we have banned the use of puberty blockers in the NHS, and also blocked the loophole of private providers -we introduced regulations which apply to all UK private prescribers, as well as prescribers registered in the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland.

Children in school should use changing rooms, play sport, share overnight accommodation and use toilets according to their birth sex. No child should be allowed to change their name at school without explicit permission from parents, and children should not be “socially transitioning” at school. As the Cass report states, this is not a neutral act. We need to protect our children.

Conversion practices are already illegal under existing legislation. I see no need to bring in an additional law which might criminalise parents, teachers and medical professionals who are providing support to young people.

I oppose any moves to bring in gender “self-ID”.

Official statistics should be clearly related to birth sex. Anything else will cause an inaccurate reflection of reality – whether crime statistics or for healthcare. And healthcare settings should use appropriate and accurate language. Women give birth and breastfeed, women get cervical cancer, men get prostate cancer. We need to ensure accurate, clear language is used.

Thank you again for your questions - please do let me know if I can help you any further.

Kind regards

Michael

Michael Tomlinson
Mid Dorset and North Poole

Floisme · 03/07/2024 18:38

'I am very clear that single-sex safe spaces for women are essential and must be protected. I also recognise that trans women have the right to dignity and safety too and will need to be able to access toilets, changing rooms and other single-sex facilities when going about their daily life.'

To paraphrase the mighty Jane in London, we need a new word for twaddle.

I'm sorry op, I know that doesn't help much.

viques · 03/07/2024 18:21

exLibDem · 02/07/2024 23:12

Thank you. I mean how do you even begin to engage with this? At least I know who I'm not voting for now. No responses yet from the other candidates I messaged.

I don’t think you can engage with that, because where do you start?

Maybe with a definition of what the phrase “single sex “ means, but I don’t hold out much hope.

Is it a safe seat or is there a chance that your current MP will lose the vote? If they do I would find it hard not to write a passive aggressive letter of condolence pointing out where they might have lost support!

ScrollingLeaves · 03/07/2024 18:10

exLibDem · 03/07/2024 18:00

Twickenham. And staggeringly, this is the LD "spokesperson on Children and Young People"

It is awful that he is the spokesperson for children and young people. I feel so angry that people like this could have power over what happens to them.

exLibDem · 03/07/2024 18:00

ScrapeMyArse · 03/07/2024 09:24

Wow.

Your MP really doesn't understand how safeguarding works.

Would you be able to share who? Understand if not!

Twickenham. And staggeringly, this is the LD "spokesperson on Children and Young People"

OP posts:
exLibDem · 03/07/2024 17:58

LonginesPrime · 03/07/2024 11:02

"We cannot exclude trans people from society"

How insulting that they equate concern over women's safety with eradicating trans people.

I realise it's probably a standard line they've been fed and are merely regurgitating without thinking for themselves, but what a terrible assumption to make of a constituent - don't they realise what a huge logical leap that is from the issue you enquired about?

Well quite. I tried to phrase all my questions respectfully, around Cass, the gender questioning guidance etc. it's so easy to paint us as bigots and not address the underlying concerns

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 03/07/2024 11:56

HootyMcBooby · 03/07/2024 10:31

Flew back from abroad yesterday.
One of the cabin crew was a transwoman, voice like Barry White and well over 6ft tall, no mistaking the sex.
He was the only one whose blouse you could see through to the extremely lacy, multiple body strap, corset type affair he had on underneath.
Not ONE of the female cabin crew had visible underwear through their blouse.

And it's the only flight I've been on EVER that the staff member took over the tannoy for well over 5 minutes to talk about all of the beauty products and perfumes available in the in-flight duty free shop. Seriously.
One of the perfumes was called "bad girl" and we got lot of off-colour double-entendres about that.
Eye roll to the fucking max.

It was an interesting flight but that's another story.

I would complain about him not following an appropriate dress code, and misusing the tanoy.

HootyMcBooby · 03/07/2024 11:15

Yep.
The automatic assumption being that WOMEN have to share their spaces, not the MEN (of whom transwomen are part).

WOMEN have to move over, budge up, acquiesce.
And if they don't want to? Cannot because of past trauma, religious reasons, or any reason at all?
Screw them.

They could easily use the male facilities and chose to preserve women's dignity, privacy and safety.
They could easily use the male facilities even if it makes them uncomfortable for 2 minutes, but instead they chose to make women uncomfortable instead and put their own needs over those of the people who actually have a right to be in that space (unlike them).
They could easily do that, but they chose not to.
Because their "rights" trump women's rights.

Because they are men.

LonginesPrime · 03/07/2024 11:02

"We cannot exclude trans people from society"

How insulting that they equate concern over women's safety with eradicating trans people.

I realise it's probably a standard line they've been fed and are merely regurgitating without thinking for themselves, but what a terrible assumption to make of a constituent - don't they realise what a huge logical leap that is from the issue you enquired about?

HootyMcBooby · 03/07/2024 10:31

Tmpnmc86 · 03/07/2024 09:32

I once went to an all day event in winter. Everyone over about 22 had on sensible winter wear - jeans, walking boots, a big coat. Only the trans woman there had on a satin blouse so that we all could see how womenly (and cold) he was.

Any time I notice shoes is in reference to comfort, not to join in the pretence with a bloke.

Flew back from abroad yesterday.
One of the cabin crew was a transwoman, voice like Barry White and well over 6ft tall, no mistaking the sex.
He was the only one whose blouse you could see through to the extremely lacy, multiple body strap, corset type affair he had on underneath.
Not ONE of the female cabin crew had visible underwear through their blouse.

And it's the only flight I've been on EVER that the staff member took over the tannoy for well over 5 minutes to talk about all of the beauty products and perfumes available in the in-flight duty free shop. Seriously.
One of the perfumes was called "bad girl" and we got lot of off-colour double-entendres about that.
Eye roll to the fucking max.

It was an interesting flight but that's another story.

Tmpnmc86 · 03/07/2024 09:32

I once went to an all day event in winter. Everyone over about 22 had on sensible winter wear - jeans, walking boots, a big coat. Only the trans woman there had on a satin blouse so that we all could see how womenly (and cold) he was.

Any time I notice shoes is in reference to comfort, not to join in the pretence with a bloke.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/07/2024 09:32

exLibDem · 02/07/2024 22:58

Finally heard back from my MP. Am feeling very angry and let down. I know I'm not the only one here who feels politically homeless.

This is an extract from the response:

"I am very clear that single-sex safe spaces for women are essential and must be protected. I also recognise that trans women have the right to dignity and safety too and will need to be able to access toilets, changing rooms and other single-sex facilities when going about their daily life.

The Equality Act 2010 already entitled trans women to use women’s facilities and this happens all the time, without many of us being aware. Indeed, predatory men wishing to access a ladies’ loo or shop changing room do not need to go through any process to do so – these spaces are not policed and nor could they practically be, without checking inside women’s underwear, which would be a gross violation of all women’s rights.

We cannot exclude trans people from society or force trans women to use single-sex facilities for men because of our concerns about predatory men. The law in our country has respected people’s right to self-identify for twenty years now, with safeguards to avoid abuse.

The Equality Act protects both hard-won women’s rights and trans rights, and shows that the two are not in conflict. In the case of prisons, hospitals and refuges, entry for all people – regardless of gender – is based on a risk assessment. It is proper that individual institutions and organisations implement their own policies according to the needs and wellbeing of their service users."

They don’t even know the law (as far as it it is supposed to work). This person is a disaster. Is that Lib Dem?

ScrapeMyArse · 03/07/2024 09:28

ScrapeMyArse · 03/07/2024 09:24

Wow.

Your MP really doesn't understand how safeguarding works.

Would you be able to share who? Understand if not!

Or logic.
Or crime statistics.
Or what makes vulnerable people vulnerable.

Quite amazing that they self identify as being capable of governing a country.

ScrapeMyArse · 03/07/2024 09:24

Wow.

Your MP really doesn't understand how safeguarding works.

Would you be able to share who? Understand if not!

Tmpnmc86 · 03/07/2024 09:20

Kai125 · 02/07/2024 23:42

And then we all skipped off into the sunset, giggling madly and talking about lipsticks and having pillow-fights.

You forgot sharing and asking to borrow Tampax in a public toilet, rather than stuff a wad of toilet roll up our fandango!

I'll never forget the "female" poster who said something like "You've probably asked a transwoman about their shoes in a public toilet and not even realised"

Haha yeah! Tell me you're a man without telling me you're a man. What do they'd actually think we do in there??

I love your size 11 shoes. I don't think they'd be any good for my bunions though.

ActivePeony · 03/07/2024 07:51

Kai125 · 02/07/2024 23:42

And then we all skipped off into the sunset, giggling madly and talking about lipsticks and having pillow-fights.

You forgot sharing and asking to borrow Tampax in a public toilet, rather than stuff a wad of toilet roll up our fandango!

I'll never forget the "female" poster who said something like "You've probably asked a transwoman about their shoes in a public toilet and not even realised"

Haha yeah! Tell me you're a man without telling me you're a man. What do they'd actually think we do in there??

I remember that. What a creep.

Omlettes · 03/07/2024 00:53

Kai125 · 02/07/2024 23:42

And then we all skipped off into the sunset, giggling madly and talking about lipsticks and having pillow-fights.

You forgot sharing and asking to borrow Tampax in a public toilet, rather than stuff a wad of toilet roll up our fandango!

I'll never forget the "female" poster who said something like "You've probably asked a transwoman about their shoes in a public toilet and not even realised"

Haha yeah! Tell me you're a man without telling me you're a man. What do they'd actually think we do in there??

I dont know about you but its where I have my Opus Dei meetings.

Kai125 · 02/07/2024 23:42

And then we all skipped off into the sunset, giggling madly and talking about lipsticks and having pillow-fights.

You forgot sharing and asking to borrow Tampax in a public toilet, rather than stuff a wad of toilet roll up our fandango!

I'll never forget the "female" poster who said something like "You've probably asked a transwoman about their shoes in a public toilet and not even realised"

Haha yeah! Tell me you're a man without telling me you're a man. What do they'd actually think we do in there??

exLibDem · 02/07/2024 23:37

Crouton19 · 02/07/2024 23:27

@exLibDem I would reply and point out their answer is illogical. As they say, there are no checks, so how can they preserve single sex spaces if anyone can say they are a woman and no-one can question it? The conflict in the EA is clear as daylight; the legal case initiated by For Women Scotland flags this. Your MP needs to work on their comprehension skills.

Completely agree it's illogical. I'm not sure anything I say in response will make a difference, but I will try to keep the dialogue open for if they get reelected.

OP posts:
exLibDem · 02/07/2024 23:36

MrsGalloway · 02/07/2024 23:31

I think that’s a cut and paste response, I’ve had the same from a Lib Dem candidate.

Interesting. I don't know if that's better or worse!

OP posts:
MrsGalloway · 02/07/2024 23:31

I think that’s a cut and paste response, I’ve had the same from a Lib Dem candidate.

Crouton19 · 02/07/2024 23:27

@exLibDem I would reply and point out their answer is illogical. As they say, there are no checks, so how can they preserve single sex spaces if anyone can say they are a woman and no-one can question it? The conflict in the EA is clear as daylight; the legal case initiated by For Women Scotland flags this. Your MP needs to work on their comprehension skills.

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 02/07/2024 23:25

Bloody hell that's bad.
My Labour candidate hasn't even replied 😩

GrumpyPanda · 02/07/2024 23:21

Notastalker · 02/07/2024 22:59

Reply from labour MP in my area:I believe there should be single sex spaces for refuges, hospitals etc and of course sport (although that’s not a space but you know what I mean ☺️)

But I also think people should live the life that makes them happy and I will always address trans people with any pronoun they want and support the community in ensuring they get access to the services they need and protection from hate crimes.

The debate is so toxic on social media but I think most people want a sensible solution that protects and respects everyone.

There’s info on this in our manifesto which I’ll try to find later.

That sounds refreshingly like a self-written answer and not a pre-prepared soundbite! I'm in Germany and all responses judging by the debate on GC Twitter were cut and past for multiple MPs of one party - probably written by a blue-haired 20yo in the parliamentary research service.

HootyMcBooby · 02/07/2024 23:20

Yeah, no fucks given at ALL for the women who now have no single sex safe space.
As long as the sensitive souls are "protected" from all those "predatory men" that are apparently filling the men's toilets.

Let's just bung those poor souls in with the women, they won't mind will they?
They can help to keep those delicate (6ft tall built like a brick shitehouse rugby player) flowers safe from harm.

And then we all skipped off into the sunset, giggling madly and talking about lipsticks and having pillow-fights.

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