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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"More people regret Harry Potter tattoos than trans surgeries"

57 replies

SpicyMoth · 02/07/2024 20:37

Does anyone have links to any stats or studies that back this claim up (or preferably refute it)?

I'm assuming not, but am currently in a debate with a "friend" who is adamant that this is the case (and has history of being insufferable about this topic), but is unsurprisingly not linking any actual evidence whatsoever.

So far I've pointed out that the amount of trans people vs the amount of people who have HP tattoos is too big of a number discrepancy to even really be a valid comparison.
Also that the vast majority of trans people do not in fact even get surgeries, and of those who do it then depends of whether they're mild (such as FFS) or drastic (such as vaginoplasty/phalloplasty), in which case the complication rates for those are MASSIVE, and the likelihood of someone going through with those surgeries then turning around and admitting they've made a mistake will be incredibly low regardless of whether they regret it or not.

I linked to studies which back my claims up, no response of yet from him... Can't help but wonder why...

Ik this is silly and petty but he has form for this and I'm absolutely sick of "sitting down and shutting up" about it.

OP posts:
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Catsmere · 04/07/2024 22:28

Misogynistic and probably homophobic with his heavy implication it's a choice. And fucking stupid comparing humans to penguins. (Makes a change from clownfish, I suppose.)

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 04/07/2024 17:22

I know/knew a man like that. He used to be a good friend and was a decent bloke but once he got together with his new wife he changed completely and turned into a horrible pass-agg twat who sneered and shrugged at all my support for women and girls. I don't need people like that in my life, no one does.

SpicyMoth · 04/07/2024 16:56

NitroNine · 04/07/2024 16:29

@SpicyMoth

He’s a misogynist. With a vastly exaggerated sense of his intellectual abilities. Was he on the school debating team or something? Calling his behaviour adolescent is a disservice to adolescents everywhere.

Honestly the majority of the group now think he is at this point, he will literally only ever have a "discussion" as he puts it with me.
Any of the other lads that try to join in to stick up for me when he's clearly trying to make me backdown and cower (sit down and shut up basically) just get ignored, that or his other friends who agree with him come in and start calling it an unfair two vs one, then start 2 vs one-ing me and going "why do you even care, live and let live" etc :')

From my understanding his mother was supposedly abusive, but that's hardly an excuse imo.
Hopefully as he ages he'll become less extremely left as most people often do and will realise just how dense he's been.
Though I expect he won't and will just end up parroting the same tripe Boy George seems to be, à la "Have a shit and shut it" 🙄

It's so depressing how many "lefty" men are so militant that they will literally prevent a confirmed majority from speaking out even when they disagree strongly with what's being parroted - That's what's the most crazy to me I think...

OP posts:
NitroNine · 04/07/2024 16:29

@SpicyMoth

He’s a misogynist. With a vastly exaggerated sense of his intellectual abilities. Was he on the school debating team or something? Calling his behaviour adolescent is a disservice to adolescents everywhere.

Compash · 04/07/2024 14:58

I dunno... something that can be covered up or lasered off versus largely irreversible lifelong pain and dysfunction... regardless of comparison of figures, there's the depth of regret to be added to the equation...

SpicyMoth · 04/07/2024 14:50

PuttingDownRoots · 04/07/2024 12:45

Coming at this from a different angle... surely it would be a good thing if it is a true statistic.

Transition should involve proper discussion with doctors (meaning hormonal and surgical interventions). It should be carefully planned. Anyone not sure advised against.

But tattoos... People get them for bets and dares. They make impulse decisions when drunk. They are often small and non visible. They generally have no effect on your life.

You're not wrong!
Honestly surprised he didn't come at it with that PoV to begin with - would've had way more respect for him if he had, but alas...

OP posts:
BezMills · 04/07/2024 14:05

"It isn't even the lightning bolt on my forehead that bothers me, but I do regret the glasses tattooed on my face"
"yeah and looking back, the gryffindor scarf neck tattoo was un peu de trop, wasn't it mate"
"fair, fair"

Ifittellsthebiggestlieswearstheloudestties · 04/07/2024 13:08

Only came to say Well Done, you. By speaking up, others will listen (even if they don't participate). Sounds like you're doing a good job!

PuttingDownRoots · 04/07/2024 12:45

Coming at this from a different angle... surely it would be a good thing if it is a true statistic.

Transition should involve proper discussion with doctors (meaning hormonal and surgical interventions). It should be carefully planned. Anyone not sure advised against.

But tattoos... People get them for bets and dares. They make impulse decisions when drunk. They are often small and non visible. They generally have no effect on your life.

SpicyMoth · 04/07/2024 12:40

You're probably right @RedToothBrush, but even so - it's emboldened others in the group to speak up which I can't be mad at myself for honestly, even though the talk was long and frustrating - The "debate" has fizzled out (for now at least!)

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 04/07/2024 12:37

SpicyMoth · 04/07/2024 12:27

Honestly neither do I sometimes, I think it's because I've recently discovered that in our social circle the majority of people actually disagree with his very militant hyper activist-y viewpoints and are just too afraid to stick their heads above the parapet.
I've ended up unintentionally becoming the spokesperson against his absolute tripe, though tbh although it's exhausting, it has done something, others are now speaking up too and the ones who would previously agree with the tripe-spouter have resorted to derailing and memes because they can't handle facts, studies and evidence being presented to them.

For those interested (and for those who may just find it funny), the "friend" in question ended up making a whole channel dedicated to "debate".

He derailed me stating that you can tell what sex a person is just by looking and asking for examples of what behaviours, expressions, patterns that align with each "gender" and how do they not essentially amount to regressive stereotypes by talking about penguins being "unable to discern what sex other penguins are".
He was unable to square that the article he was supposedly reading was talking about humans being unable to discern the sex of penguins as they're not obviously dimorphic, not about penguins themselves being unable to discern, and went on a massive tangent about how penguins have to simply guess (How he expects humans to have mind-read penguins I have no idea).

Which then derailed further into gay penguins, and penguins actively making the choice to be gay, and how he hopes penguins "choose" to be gay vs just "guessing" what sex of penguin they're mating with. (didn't know being gay was a choice but hey-ho!!)

After an entire night of not answering my question and instead making it about penguins and whether or not one can discern what sex a person is from just looking, he then the next night went onto the usual "assigned at birth" nonsense.
I pointed out sex is determined by the sperm in utero, brief mention of nub theory as it's just a theory, and asked him how exactly I know what sex my 31week pregnancy is if sex is "assigned at birth".

He brought up intersex, because of course he did, I countered with DSD's.
(Of course he replied so fast that it was obvious he ignored literally ALL of my linked sources)

When I pointed out sex is not assigned it's observed, he derailed once more and we ended up debating the definition of the word "assigned" (for hours before he finally conceded whilst also still disagreeing with me).

After asking about 6 or 7 times about my original question, he then decided to get into a debate about the definition of the word "stereotypes" instead of giving me examples, which went on for further hours and resulted in him conceding whilst disagreeing again.(He loves to do this)

All in all, it was headache inducing, however it did give others in the group courage to join in and speak their minds freely - though unsurprisingly he ignored all of them (men) and would only respond to me.
He seems to only ever want to argue/debate me specifically.
Think it's pretty clear at this point he genuinely holds some kind of resentment or misogyny towards women as he literally just will entirely ignore anyone else saying the same as me or agreeing with me and double down talking to me and me alone, as if to try and intimidate me and make me back down on my views which are backed up vs his which are not.

And ofc, he linked no sources throughout the entire "debate".

My experience is this type is an attention seeking drama llama.

By engaging you validate.

Eye rolling is an effective response.

RedToothBrush · 04/07/2024 12:36

Given the NHS do not have reliable data on detransition and regret because the Cass Review was blocked by clinics from having this information, I'm curious as to how your friend has that data.

I also would like to see the methodology for collection data on Harry Potter Tattoo Regret.

Your friend is thick as mince. HTH.

SpicyMoth · 04/07/2024 12:27

borntobequiet · 03/07/2024 19:50

I don’t understand why you’re even talking to this numpty.

Honestly neither do I sometimes, I think it's because I've recently discovered that in our social circle the majority of people actually disagree with his very militant hyper activist-y viewpoints and are just too afraid to stick their heads above the parapet.
I've ended up unintentionally becoming the spokesperson against his absolute tripe, though tbh although it's exhausting, it has done something, others are now speaking up too and the ones who would previously agree with the tripe-spouter have resorted to derailing and memes because they can't handle facts, studies and evidence being presented to them.

For those interested (and for those who may just find it funny), the "friend" in question ended up making a whole channel dedicated to "debate".

He derailed me stating that you can tell what sex a person is just by looking and asking for examples of what behaviours, expressions, patterns that align with each "gender" and how do they not essentially amount to regressive stereotypes by talking about penguins being "unable to discern what sex other penguins are".
He was unable to square that the article he was supposedly reading was talking about humans being unable to discern the sex of penguins as they're not obviously dimorphic, not about penguins themselves being unable to discern, and went on a massive tangent about how penguins have to simply guess (How he expects humans to have mind-read penguins I have no idea).

Which then derailed further into gay penguins, and penguins actively making the choice to be gay, and how he hopes penguins "choose" to be gay vs just "guessing" what sex of penguin they're mating with. (didn't know being gay was a choice but hey-ho!!)

After an entire night of not answering my question and instead making it about penguins and whether or not one can discern what sex a person is from just looking, he then the next night went onto the usual "assigned at birth" nonsense.
I pointed out sex is determined by the sperm in utero, brief mention of nub theory as it's just a theory, and asked him how exactly I know what sex my 31week pregnancy is if sex is "assigned at birth".

He brought up intersex, because of course he did, I countered with DSD's.
(Of course he replied so fast that it was obvious he ignored literally ALL of my linked sources)

When I pointed out sex is not assigned it's observed, he derailed once more and we ended up debating the definition of the word "assigned" (for hours before he finally conceded whilst also still disagreeing with me).

After asking about 6 or 7 times about my original question, he then decided to get into a debate about the definition of the word "stereotypes" instead of giving me examples, which went on for further hours and resulted in him conceding whilst disagreeing again.(He loves to do this)

All in all, it was headache inducing, however it did give others in the group courage to join in and speak their minds freely - though unsurprisingly he ignored all of them (men) and would only respond to me.
He seems to only ever want to argue/debate me specifically.
Think it's pretty clear at this point he genuinely holds some kind of resentment or misogyny towards women as he literally just will entirely ignore anyone else saying the same as me or agreeing with me and double down talking to me and me alone, as if to try and intimidate me and make me back down on my views which are backed up vs his which are not.

And ofc, he linked no sources throughout the entire "debate".

OP posts:
ThreeEggOmlette · 04/07/2024 12:21

Great post @alittleprivacy

The consequences of regret for these two things are in no way comparable.

BezMills · 04/07/2024 12:16

It's like arguing with my 6yo daughter about whether crunch corner yoghurt with choco flakes counts as dessert or not (clearly it does, she disagrees).

Some arguments cannot bear fruit, and I don't want to have them!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/07/2024 12:06

OP, I've worked out over the years that earnest replies take up too much of your brainpower and have zero effect on eejits who say daft things.

This.

alittleprivacy · 04/07/2024 11:42

I got a tattoo when I was 21 that I fully thought was stupid by the time I was 25. It didn't particularly affect anything about me though. It wasn't in a particularly visible part of my body. I got married, had a kid, breastfed, got really fit and good at a couple of sports, etc. The stupid tattoo had absolutely no impact on anything I ever did day to day, on my ambitions or happiness. It didn't put me at added risk of breaking a bone when I something didn't go well in sports. It didn't impact my fertility or ability to feed my son the way I wanted to. It didn't really alter my looks, unless you looked at that one area of my body.

Every so often I looked up ways to get rid of the tattoo as it would occasionally nag at me as something stupid. And eventually concluded that I could get a pretty but generic cover-up tattoo. I feel neutral about the cover-up, because I'm very glad it's not what it was. But I'd be happier with no tattoo. But it absolutely, 100%, solidifies in my mind how important it is not to make changes to your body when you are young. A stupid picture that you wish wasn't indelibly on your body isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. And it's easy enough to get it changed to something else, though it will hurt and cost money that you'd wish you could use for something else. Fucking up your entire system, removing healthy body parts, damaging your bone health, your fertility and sex drive, those don't compare to a stupid drawing on your skin.

The correct answer to 'more people regret their Harry Potter tattoos' is sure, people regret doing stupid shit to their body. But a tattoo is a picture on your skin and just that. The only way is relevant is that it shows how common it is to regret altering your body. It's an argument in favour of stopping transitions. Because doing severe permanent damage to body will almost always be regretted and you can't just drop a few hundred quid to make it more palatable.

MarieDeGournay · 04/07/2024 10:15

OP, I've worked out over the years that earnest replies take up too much of your brainpower and have zero effect on eejits who say daft things.

I'd scoff and say 'That's silly, nobody knows how many HP tattoos there are, and there's only a tiny number of trans people anyway!' and hopefully that's an end to that pointless speculationSmile

borntobequiet · 03/07/2024 19:50

I don’t understand why you’re even talking to this numpty.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/07/2024 19:48

My brother got a crap tattoo (not HP) when he was 17 and has spent a lot of money and effort removing it in the several decades since!

MalagaNights · 03/07/2024 19:12

Well yes I can imagine a lot of people regret getting Harry Potter tattoos.

They probably got them when they were young (although above 18) and imagined and truly beleived this phase of wanting to signal your love for Harry Potter as part of your identity would last for ever. Because Harry Potter was so important to them yu see. Stupid parent objecting didn't get it wasn't just a phase.

So the moral is: young people are immature and don't yet fully understand the futire consequences of things.

Which is more reason to stop them altering their bodies in ways that impact thier fertility and health long term when they are young. Not a reason to allow them too.

Also obviouly more people get harry Potter tatoos than sex change surgery so there will be more (unless he's talking perectages?)

And: there are no stats he's making it up.

RoyalCorgi · 03/07/2024 18:33

How could data even exist on this? You'd have to know a) how many people have Harry Potter tattoos - but who on earth is collecting this information? b) how many regret it - if you don't know the answer to a) then how can you know the answer to b?

Then you'd have to know how many people are having trans surgeries - you'd expect that data to be available, but I don't think it is collected, at leat not at a national level. You'd have to collate the info from all the different NHS trusts. Then you'd have to find out how many regret it, and we know that data isn't collected, because we have discussed the fact it isn't collected many times on here, and commented on how shocking it is that it isn't collected.

So that's four pieces of data, none of which exist, and this person is trying to claim that one set is bigger than another. Bollocks.

verygrumpy · 03/07/2024 16:41

Apologies if someone has already said this, but AFAIK there are no statistics for transition regret. Almost all the detransition blogs and videos I've seen suggest that when someone detransitions they stop taking their hormone medication and melt into the background. No one follows them up or collects statistics.

Also who realistically is collecting Harry Potter tattoo regret stats? Tattoos are generally removed privately, not on the NHS. How are the stats collected? @SpicyMoth Your friend's talking absolute bollocks.

BezMills · 03/07/2024 13:52

Source : counting posts on the r/HPTattooRegretJKRIsATerf subreddit