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RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 04/07/2024 22:10

Omlettes · 04/07/2024 20:32

I hope you enforce your own boundaries.
its a crucial life lesson for boys growing up to respect 'no' from a woman, especially their mother.
Afterall this whole movement is based on disrespecting boundaries and manipulating us to lie against our own best interests, and if they but realised it, their own.

I agree with you - though I’m his father as it happens. Unfortunately the result of enforcing ones own boundaries is often estrangement. His mother is also struggling with how to handle the situation, though she’s more laid back about it than I am.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/07/2024 20:42

So basically, he is "more comfortable" and expects you to go along with it, no matter how uncomfortable or unhappy you are.

More sounds like he just wants to be "trans" rather than sees himself as a woman. I'm so bored with this ideology.

Omlettes · 04/07/2024 20:32

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 03/07/2024 17:14

A dear son of mine is trans. He cannot explain what it is that makes him “a woman”. He is just “more comfortable”. But I am expected to call him “she”. Make sense of that.

I hope you enforce your own boundaries.
its a crucial life lesson for boys growing up to respect 'no' from a woman, especially their mother.
Afterall this whole movement is based on disrespecting boundaries and manipulating us to lie against our own best interests, and if they but realised it, their own.

EasternStandard · 03/07/2024 20:37

Finally

‘This isn’t a culture war’

No shit Sherlock! Not who said it but the press for using the line to undermine women. Politicians and pp on here too

DuesToTheDirt · 03/07/2024 20:34

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 03/07/2024 17:14

A dear son of mine is trans. He cannot explain what it is that makes him “a woman”. He is just “more comfortable”. But I am expected to call him “she”. Make sense of that.

So basically, he is "more comfortable" and expects you to go along with it, no matter how uncomfortable or unhappy you are.

quixote9 · 03/07/2024 19:25

allaboardtheplaybus · 02/07/2024 23:09

Single sex spaces and sports concern me but I do think that some trans women are women - it’s not a line in the sand for me.

Which ones?

The only time I get the feeling that, well, yes, there is something actually woman-like about her (and the only times female pronouns come naturally) is with those trans-identified males who are quite clear that they're males. And who are willing to listen. And who seem to have an actual inkling how women are treated by the unwashed masses.

The ones who don't insist on it. Who are willing to see the world from other points of view.

And once I articulated it to myself, struck me all of a heap that it's a sad statement about my stereotypes of men. (It's their own fault!)

DodoPatrol · 03/07/2024 17:36

I'll add to MissScarletInTheBallroom's list:

It's the young female students away from home the first time, encountering loud, brash, drunk young males in the loos in their halls and being too afraid of genderism to complain.

AIstolemylunch · 03/07/2024 17:35

I cant believe they are all leaving it to the last day of twonto acknowledge this huge elepahnt in the room - legions of pissed off women.

UtterlyOtterly · 03/07/2024 17:32

I asked our Labour candidate about his thoughts on women's rights. He looked absolutely terrified, I almost felt sorry for him.

I had to ask several times, very firmly like a teacher, what he thought a woman is. He was desperately embarrassed at me using words like penis and vulva, but eventually managed to stammer out something about adult human females.

No doubt some candidates don't believe in gender stuff but have to toe the party line.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 03/07/2024 17:14

urbanbuddha · 02/07/2024 23:10

A dear friend of mine is trans.

A dear son of mine is trans. He cannot explain what it is that makes him “a woman”. He is just “more comfortable”. But I am expected to call him “she”. Make sense of that.

Kucinghitam · 03/07/2024 17:13

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/07/2024 16:34

Absolutely this.

Although I would say more than working class, it's marginalised women and children who suffer the most.

It's the women serving a short prison sentence for stealing money to buy drugs who end up incarcerated with Karen White.

It's the women from Muslim communities who used to be able to swim down at the local council run swimming pool because they had a women only hour once a week, but no longer can because "women only" no longer means women only.

It's the children who have grown up in the care system after being abused at a very young age who are particularly susceptible to the idea of being trans and have no loving and properly informed adults looking out for their welfare.

It's the women who have been raped and abused by men who finally get referred to a rape counselling service after a long wait, for whom not attending a particular group or refusing to see an opposite sex counsellor means they get no help at all because trans inclusive/mixed sex support is all that is on offer.

It's women who are struggling to make ends meet and absolutely cannot afford to lose their jobs, who feel powerless to kick up a fuss if their employer informs them that they will now be sharing changing facilities with male colleagues.

It's parents who have no possibility of sending their children to anything other than the nearest state school, who cannot pull their kids out and send them somewhere else if the school is encouraging them to identify as the opposite sex.

It's women with poor English or learning disabilities who miss out on important information about cervical screening because the information is addressed to "people with cervixes" and they don't realise this is relevant to them.

It's the women who have suffered male violence who self exclude from public toilets and changing rooms after encountering a male bodied person in there and having a panic attack.

It's young lesbians who are being coerced into accepting male partners in the belief that their preference for female partners as opposed to female identifying partners is inherently transphobic.

It's autistic teenagers who are being led to believe that the reason they feel like such a square peg in a round hole is because they were born in the wrong body and transitioning will fix that.

It's not the Stella Creasys and Nicola Sturgeons and Emily Thornberrys and Theresa Mays and Emma Watsons and Jameela Jamils of this world, who are incredibly unlikely to find themselves in any of these scenarios and are therefore alright, Jacqueline.

Edited

Exactly this!

StarmersAbsoluteTwaddle · 03/07/2024 17:10

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/07/2024 16:34

Absolutely this.

Although I would say more than working class, it's marginalised women and children who suffer the most.

It's the women serving a short prison sentence for stealing money to buy drugs who end up incarcerated with Karen White.

It's the women from Muslim communities who used to be able to swim down at the local council run swimming pool because they had a women only hour once a week, but no longer can because "women only" no longer means women only.

It's the children who have grown up in the care system after being abused at a very young age who are particularly susceptible to the idea of being trans and have no loving and properly informed adults looking out for their welfare.

It's the women who have been raped and abused by men who finally get referred to a rape counselling service after a long wait, for whom not attending a particular group or refusing to see an opposite sex counsellor means they get no help at all because trans inclusive/mixed sex support is all that is on offer.

It's women who are struggling to make ends meet and absolutely cannot afford to lose their jobs, who feel powerless to kick up a fuss if their employer informs them that they will now be sharing changing facilities with male colleagues.

It's parents who have no possibility of sending their children to anything other than the nearest state school, who cannot pull their kids out and send them somewhere else if the school is encouraging them to identify as the opposite sex.

It's women with poor English or learning disabilities who miss out on important information about cervical screening because the information is addressed to "people with cervixes" and they don't realise this is relevant to them.

It's the women who have suffered male violence who self exclude from public toilets and changing rooms after encountering a male bodied person in there and having a panic attack.

It's young lesbians who are being coerced into accepting male partners in the belief that their preference for female partners as opposed to female identifying partners is inherently transphobic.

It's autistic teenagers who are being led to believe that the reason they feel like such a square peg in a round hole is because they were born in the wrong body and transitioning will fix that.

It's not the Stella Creasys and Nicola Sturgeons and Emily Thornberrys and Theresa Mays and Emma Watsons and Jameela Jamils of this world, who are incredibly unlikely to find themselves in any of these scenarios and are therefore alright, Jacqueline.

Edited

😢 THIS

tedgran · 03/07/2024 16:47

MissScarletintheBallrrom, beautifully articulated.

IWilloBeACervix · 03/07/2024 16:40

I sent my thoughts into the guardian. I’m glad to see they haven’t just pretended it wasn’t mentioned and hoped it would go away.
I haven’t been able to raise it on the doorstep, as no one has actually knocked, so instead I tracked down my local Labour candidate and they seemed reasonable. They might not have realised that this could be the beginning of a long-term relationship.
I still don’t think I can vote for the Labour Party because of this. My constituency has been large majority Tory for years. It may switch.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 03/07/2024 16:34

StarmersAbsoluteTwaddle · 03/07/2024 16:02

I hear you about the way the Tories have impacted working class people, but I would say the opposite. That buying into the ‘trans women are women’ fiction is a luxury belief that middle class women indulge in to ‘be kind’ from a privileged position of somebody who believes they will never have to share a prison cell with a male sex offender, for example.

It’s working class women who suffer the most from this damaging ideology.

Absolutely this.

Although I would say more than working class, it's marginalised women and children who suffer the most.

It's the women serving a short prison sentence for stealing money to buy drugs who end up incarcerated with Karen White.

It's the women from Muslim communities who used to be able to swim down at the local council run swimming pool because they had a women only hour once a week, but no longer can because "women only" no longer means women only.

It's the children who have grown up in the care system after being abused at a very young age who are particularly susceptible to the idea of being trans and have no loving and properly informed adults looking out for their welfare.

It's the women who have been raped and abused by men who finally get referred to a rape counselling service after a long wait, for whom not attending a particular group or refusing to see an opposite sex counsellor means they get no help at all because trans inclusive/mixed sex support is all that is on offer.

It's women who are struggling to make ends meet and absolutely cannot afford to lose their jobs, who feel powerless to kick up a fuss if their employer informs them that they will now be sharing changing facilities with male colleagues.

It's parents who have no possibility of sending their children to anything other than the nearest state school, who cannot pull their kids out and send them somewhere else if the school is encouraging them to identify as the opposite sex.

It's women with poor English or learning disabilities who miss out on important information about cervical screening because the information is addressed to "people with cervixes" and they don't realise this is relevant to them.

It's the women who have suffered male violence who self exclude from public toilets and changing rooms after encountering a male bodied person in there and having a panic attack.

It's young lesbians who are being coerced into accepting male partners in the belief that their preference for female partners as opposed to female identifying partners is inherently transphobic.

It's autistic teenagers who are being led to believe that the reason they feel like such a square peg in a round hole is because they were born in the wrong body and transitioning will fix that.

It's not the Stella Creasys and Nicola Sturgeons and Emily Thornberrys and Theresa Mays and Emma Watsons and Jameela Jamils of this world, who are incredibly unlikely to find themselves in any of these scenarios and are therefore alright, Jacqueline.

RedToothBrush · 03/07/2024 16:22

Figment1982 · 03/07/2024 12:19

Not relevant to this debate but some inaccurate reporting there:

'About a quarter of the women who got in touch said they were still undecided, among them Alice, from the marginal seat of Mid Bedfordshire, where Labour could oust the Conservatives despite their current majority of 24,664.'

The current Mid Beds MP IS a Labour MP! He won it in the by-election last year.

Don't forget the boundaries are changing for some constituencies tomorrow.

anyolddinosaur · 03/07/2024 16:19

I have a trans relative. They, and their trans partner, have permanently damaged health. No way will I support those who wish to encourage anyone down that track.

Those who encourage transition are often homophobic, it's conversion therapy for gay people.

StarmersAbsoluteTwaddle · 03/07/2024 16:02

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 03/07/2024 15:48

I have sympathy with the gender critical debate and agree there is much nonsense talked, and that men can never be women. But I do think that voting only in the basis of a single issue is a luxury, and out of touch with the very many working class women for whom this issue is the least of the issues that matter to them politically.

I hear you about the way the Tories have impacted working class people, but I would say the opposite. That buying into the ‘trans women are women’ fiction is a luxury belief that middle class women indulge in to ‘be kind’ from a privileged position of somebody who believes they will never have to share a prison cell with a male sex offender, for example.

It’s working class women who suffer the most from this damaging ideology.

Chersfrozenface · 03/07/2024 15:54

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 03/07/2024 15:48

I have sympathy with the gender critical debate and agree there is much nonsense talked, and that men can never be women. But I do think that voting only in the basis of a single issue is a luxury, and out of touch with the very many working class women for whom this issue is the least of the issues that matter to them politically.

Gender ideology does affect working class women, though.

Like nurses in Nottingham and Fife.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 03/07/2024 15:48

I have sympathy with the gender critical debate and agree there is much nonsense talked, and that men can never be women. But I do think that voting only in the basis of a single issue is a luxury, and out of touch with the very many working class women for whom this issue is the least of the issues that matter to them politically.

AgathaMystery · 03/07/2024 15:25

RadicalisedPastThePointOfSalvation · 03/07/2024 11:56

Sorry. I will do better. I’ve made a donation to Stonewall’s Gendered Butterflies and will prostrate myself in front of the rainbow flag for the rest of the day.

Too little.

too late.

RubyTrees · 03/07/2024 14:55

The Guardian waited until 2 days before the election to admit that there’s a “woman problem” - some might say it’s better late than never but I’m not buying it. Their shameful treatment of Hadley Freeman and Suzanne Moore was enough for me to stop supporting them.
https://archive.ph/6MXrS

Apparently the Guardian is up against “Lobby groups with opaque funding who are determined to undermine facts about the climate emergency and other established science” - hmm…such as biology perhaps? And yes Guardian, I’ll continue rejecting third-party cookies on your site - sorry not sorry about the hit to your finances.

Looks like the Guardian can't ignore sex vs gender any more
Looks like the Guardian can't ignore sex vs gender any more
BloodyHellKenAgain · 03/07/2024 13:54

margegunderson · 02/07/2024 22:37

I brought it up on the doorstep. Candidate was cautious but didn't tell me I was a TERF. And this is in one of the wokest constituencies of the lot.

I brought it up on the doorstep and all the Labour guy could say was, yes we hear that a lot, but please still vote for us 🥴 🙄

UpThePankhurst · 03/07/2024 13:42

urbanbuddha · 02/07/2024 23:10

A dear friend of mine is trans.

And? Your point is?

That women shouldn't want rights?

XXParty · 03/07/2024 13:36

LaLoba · 03/07/2024 00:05

My tiny Netherlands Dwarf rabbit is not a geneticist. He does however know what a female of any species is. He likes my husband, but he loves my female dog and me with such devotion it makes my husband nervous around him. Almost like sex is really obvious. Or perhaps my teeny tiny bunny is a fascist transphobe, who can tell?

If I'd known this was going to be a bunny thread I'd have scheduled a photo op with Chompsky before he turned in for the day. As it was I had to wake him up behind the couch for this.

He also does book reviews.
https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=8842.msg19308#msg19308

Looks like the Guardian can't ignore sex vs gender any more