Starmer tw don't have the right to use women only toilets

Exactly that. And it's not about the percentages, how many, etc. It's the simple fact that, if you leave the door open, predators will take advantage.

@Sunshineandchill sadly there is a lot to worry about even with men who seek surgery and hormones.

This study has come up on Mumsnet a few times and it’s alarming because it revealed paedophilia among males seeking gender reassignment.

The study found that over a period of 5 years at an Oxford clinic, 2 out of 38 males were

“seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia. This latter small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role.”

Gender reassignment: 5 years of referrals in Oxfordshire
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 02 January 2018 Volume 35 Issue 9 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E

This proves what lengths men will go to. It doesn’t say that they did or did not also have or claim to have gender dysphoria. And who could prove whether they genuinely did or didn’t. You can only go on what people say. Personality disorder was a common co-morbidity though. (Also autism) Maybe others who went through the service hid their motivations better.

These 2 men actually exist in real life not just on paper. Assuming they haven’t offended and been caught, they are out there and are enabled to use women’s spaces by the be kind and don’t ask questions ideology.

I always wonder where these men are now.

Sunshine, thankyou for your contributions and your clarifications. I hope you stick around, it’s always important to be able to test alternative views - whether there is a huge difference, or a very slight one.

Sunshine might I suggest you look up Alan/Sarah Jane Baker w.r.t. castrated men being safer to be around?

https://the-lies-they-tell.org/2023/05/20/profile-of-trans-activist-sarah-jane-baker/

Or you just provide totally separate toilets for them, I get that I really do. There is no inbetween, that’s the whole problem.

I want the right to challenge a male who walks into the ladies toilets after my eight year old daughter.

I don't know if he's got a GRC (they don't tattoo it on the forehead) and I don't care.
90% of transwomen keep their male equipment. No surgery, no hormones; a few don't even bother to shave.

We don't have a reliable way of telling the good men from the bad, but we know that men as a sex class pose a danger to women. That's why its a blanket exclusion. Being trans does not change that.

That is indeed the problem in a nutshell.

You either ban all males from women's spaces whether they've had their cock chopped off or not, or you have to allow any male into any women's space for any reason.

There is nothing in between because there is no practical means of managing any in between solution.

This is exactly why I was departing goodbye 👋

You don’t that is the problem. And maybe psychiatric test sounded judgemental, I did not mean it too, I was just under the impression that councilling was given to make sure that the person was really sure before going through the whole process.

Your choice entirely as to your boundaries, and you're lucky enough and privileged enough to have no reason to be excluded by men in a women's space. <shrug>

What do you plan to do with the women who aren't ok, don't consent and can't use those spaces?

Ok to exclude them from everything so men can have all the choices because it's not bothering you?

And why should women's rights and equalities and wishes be subordinated to men IF the men have worked hard enough and been sad enough? Are they some kind of justified sacrifice to reward the brave warrior?

Gift wrap a woman for a sad bloke today, who cares what she thinks about it. He deserves her.

Ffs listen to yourself!

Psychiatric test?

OK.

So being practical about this.

If you're in a ladies' loo and you see a 6ft male, how do you know whether they've taken hormone treatment and had a psychiatric test and had their cock and balls chopped off?

Three are no surgeries or hormones needed to change your legal gender. You just declare your intention to live as the opposite gender.

Personally, if someone had been through all the hormonal changes and Physical changes and had the psychiatric test, then I would be ok sharing a loo with that person. (Not literally of course) 😂If that person is happy being a different sex then really that is far safer than being with an unhappy person! But….as we all know there are strange people in the world and it’s not practical. I just think as people have rightly said, men are usually governed by their bits, so why would they have them cut off if they were not serious! I really do not want to sound like I am not on women’s side here, but it’s just being practical.

It's not supposed to cause an argument. It's a genuine question.

Do you think they are ruining the reputation of genuine trans people? What impact does that have? Or it is something more concrete, like you think that genuine trans people should be allowed in opposite sex spaces but because of the non genuine ones it should stop?

Look I’m not here to get dragged into an argument. Nothing I have said was meant to offend. ✌🏻👋

What are they ruining for others, exactly?

The problem is though that a woman's needs and experiences do not change based on what happens to be happening between a man's ears at the time.

And since no one is even pausing to consider that she has a head, never mind what's happening in it, it's just mad extreme sexism.

I understand where you are coming from. I don’t confess to know what goes on in anyone’s head, so I agree wholeheartedly with separate toilets.

Should the rights of female humans be predicated on the assessed emotions of male humans?

Or is that insane male supremacism?

None. Mental health professionals aren't the arbiters of women's rights!

(warbles) Marina, Aqua Marina

While Aqua Moye, 21, from Hertfordshire said they wanted an incoming government to adopt gender recognition legislation which matches that passed by Scotlandd_."

So "Aqua" is a male person with blue hair.

You have a basic choice. You can avoid making men sad by pretending they have become women and letting them have all women's spaces and resources because awww bless, it's nice to kind and nice and sad men. (And you're not bothered by aww bless for women because being kind and nice to them gets you no cookies, and it's not like they're human or anything, and oh well if disabled/minority/homosexual/traumatised women lose all access to society, we have SAD MEN....)

Or you can have equality as a woman.

It is horrifying the number of people who think awww bless for a man is really more important.

Changing the EqA got lobbyists going

We won’t get it now though