Starmer tw don't have the right to use women only toilets

Good point @senua

That headline says "WON'T be allowed to use".
But that's not what KS said; he said "shouldn't". He hasn't elaborated about what he & his party would do if they get in government to ensure that "won't" word rather than "shouldn't".

It's empty, slippery words. As per.

Keir Starmer is walking on a knife edge.

I am not certain Labour will get the majority people think.

And if the Tories get in, I'm not certain they'll be the women's rights champions they're positioning themselves as during this campaign.

I actually quite like the ‘with a penis’ clarification - because so many people wrongly assume that most transwomen don’t; but you’re absolutely right.

Sunshineandchill speak clearly, it's not about political correctness it's about using the correct language and not spouting twaddle.

When you say The Change it will be construed as you talking about the menopause by the majority of people.

I'd say right on, of course you can go in women's toilets when you've been through the change because only women can go through the change.

Bottom line is though, no amount of change will make a man a woman or vice versa.

I can see this can't I, I'm not imagining it

"While Sir Keir did not mention lavatories specifically"

Yes. I think he mentioned "biological women's spaces". Unless he's explicitly said a GRC isn't a pass to these spaces, I'm afraid I don't believe him, and even if he did I don't trust him.

Is the "absolute twaddle" radio caller Mumsnet's very own Jane?

I'm getting very frustrated with all this talk about how trans women "with penises" shouldn't be in women's spaces.

The options are as follows:

• You keep all males out of women's spaces whether they have a penis or not;
• You allow all males into women's spaces whether they have a penis or not; or
• You have bouncers on the doors of all women's spaces checking people's genitalia.

Obviously option 3 is not a real option so which of the first two options is it going to be?

You've either not read the post, or are purposely misunderstanding it.

I can see this can't I, I'm not imagining it

"While Sir Keir did not mention lavatories specifically"

Never wanted your consent. Just voicing my opinion if that’s ok with you

We've had years of Labour telling us we're bigots for saying this, women have been expelled from Labour for saying less.

Now explain HOW you will keep men out of women's sports, prisons, changing rooms, toilets and women-only groups.

"Gender chaos" 🤣

Until the law is clarified I don't believe him

We are going to have to hope you are right about that, because we have no choice.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13591309/Keir-Starmer-says-trans-women-penises-NOT-allowed-female-toilets-JK-Rowling.html

Gender chaos in the Mail.

@Sunshineandchill you might be alright with males of various states of undress and surgery changing with you.

But you don't get to provide consent on my behalf. Or on behalf of other women.

HTH

Hahaha, I just came from there, Eresh!

if a man suffers a terrible injury from a landmine and loses his genitals or part or loses some or all to cancer he is still in every cell male. No guarantee of lesser physical strength or lesser patterns of aggression and offending and I don't want men in my spaces and my boundaries don't include undressing in front of men and my common sense tells me being in a potentially enclosed quiet space like toilets is dangerous

I was wondering whether a separate thread for this would be good? To kind of act as a truth barometer between now and Thursday? If the thread remains relatively empty of evidence, then we know Starmer's done behind the scenes deals with Stonewall and the other guys.

Personally, I think KS never wanted men in women's toilets. He just was too scared to stand up and say it and hoped the issue would just go away. this is his very small step towards realising that the issue isn't going away and he's going to have to alienate someone, sometime.

As LibDems have gone full on the other way, again, I am sticking with labour.

I've just been on the reliably unhinged LabourUK subreddit and only had a quick skim. It wasn't being discussed but coincidentally while I was writing this post this has just gone up

www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/s/1Ghd8OKQZG

I don't know why we don't just say 'member of the female / male sex.'

And keep saying it.

Because it says it all.

None of this 'gender' smoke and mirrors.

Nothing from Willoughby. Nothing from White.

Very interesting question. If this were real, KS would be getting a lot of attention just now!

@Sunshineandchill i actually don’t understand what you mean - but maybe you could also comment on whether you’re happy with Dolatowski or Baker having unfettered access to women’s toilets and changing rooms?