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Original poster

Miriam Cates

282 replies

CassieMaddox · 01/07/2024 23:54

New report says she was trustee at a church while gay conversion therapy was happening. The kind of conversion therapy that involves exorcism of demons.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngprp5xdvo

As a director and trustee at the charity behind the church, external from September 2016 to September 2018, Mrs Cates, had safeguarding responsibilities for those who attended

Thought this might interest some posters on here. Not sure I would trust her with safeguarding after this, if indeed she retains her seat.

A close-up of former MP Miriam Cates

Miriam Cates: Tory candidate was trustee of church that ‘endorsed’ conversion therapy

A report finds St Thomas Philadelphia church in Sheffield had "supported" conversion therapy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngprp5xdvo

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MalagaNights · 03/07/2024 12:35

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Exactly we let parents make those decisions.

Some believe bringing a child up with a religion is abusive.
Some think it's essential.

Some think bringing up a child gender neutral is a abusive.
Some think it's great parenting.

Some parents think teaching your child that being gay is morally no different to being straight is the right morals to instil.
Some think teaching your child it's a sin to be gay is the right moral to instil.

I'm sure we all have our own strong views on each of those scenarios and could argue our case.
But we live in a relatively free society where you can raise your child with whatever beliefs you wish.

UtilitarianNameChange · 03/07/2024 12:30

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I don’t even think the the Elf on The Shelf reporting back to Santa (aka The Festive Surveillance State’) is healthy so it must be far worse for kids who are told they will go to hell if they do x (rather than not get many gifts that year).

But I still prioritise freedom of speech and the right to religious belief over banning elves/church/shaming women etc.

WickedSerious · 03/07/2024 12:25

Looks like we're gonna need a bigger ducking stool.

MalagaNights · 03/07/2024 12:23

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I do think adults who voluntarily join groups where they know they will have issues with how they live shouldn't complain.

It's different if you can show coercision into being in the group or taking part in prayers. But if you know what they think and just keep going you have to take some responsibility.

Like that journalist who deliberately sought out a Christian therapist to explore sexuality and then was upset when she offered a differing view of sexuality.

It's like I'm going to find the person who will offend me and then be offended and then ask for this to be banned.

I do think conversion therapy is getting misinterpreted to mean no questioning at all even if you seek it out voluntarily and then deliberately misued to make religious views unacceptable.

Like what is happening on this thread.

It's really about Mariam Cates having views which shouldn't be tolerated.

LaundryOnTheLine · 03/07/2024 12:22

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MalagaNights · 03/07/2024 12:13

Gender ideology is comparable in that it's a potentially harmful belief to raise children with in some people's eyes.
But we want it out of schools and taught as fact not banned as a belief.

Do you want belief in demons banned? Or praying to overcome demons banned?

Or do you want churches and all religious groups to be forced to accept homosexuality?

I've worked with children who have been traumatised by 'exorcism' rituals to cure them of autism.
Abusive practises have however been very hard to prove. The families belief that autism was caused by demons was concerning but not illegal.

At what point does regarding homosexuality as a sin and praying about it become abuse?
I'm sure there is a line but it's hard to legally define.

LaundryOnTheLine · 03/07/2024 12:10

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LaundryOnTheLine · 03/07/2024 12:08

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Original poster
CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 12:01

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You think you know my opinions better than I do?

Stop arguing why churches should be allowed to do conversion therapy on gay people. It's not a good look.

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CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 12:00

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Looks like we cross posted but I've answered that.
You can imply I'm bad faith all you like but it is not true. She's losing her seat anyway, nothing to do with me.

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LaundryOnTheLine · 03/07/2024 11:59

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Original poster
CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 11:58

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You post came across to me as we should ignore safeguarding issues in church because it's "church business", but safeguarding issues related to gender ideology should not be ignored because it's in the NHS, schools etc.

I disagree. My opinion is a safeguarding issue exists regardless of the setting. In fact I'd go further and say safeguarding issues in closed environments (religions, families) are more pernicious and harder to deal with due to their hidden nature, so should be taken even more seriously when they come to light.

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LaundryOnTheLine · 03/07/2024 11:58

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Original poster
CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 11:54

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I want her unseated because she holds views that I believe to be dangerous to women and gay people, and I don't think those should be tolerated or encouraged because she also happens to be GC.

From my perspective this thread comes across as others want her to remain an MP because they are 100% on board with the practices at the church she was trustee at. Fine, you are entitled to your opinion, however we are never going to agree on that.

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LaundryOnTheLine · 03/07/2024 11:54

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Original poster
CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 11:49

Well. This thread has certainly been illuminating on the conversion therapy debate.

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CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 11:48

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 03/07/2024 10:58

And to be clear, social ostracism is not ‘being asked to step back as a leader because you are no longer in sympathy with the organisations aims’.

Jehova’s Witnesses socially ostracise people who step out of line. Shunning is quite different.

Show quote history

From the report into Drapper:

FINDING 2 : In relation to MD’s complaint (b) that ‘In 2014 [MD] experienced prayer ministry, which he considers to be an exorcism, and which attempted to change his sexual orientation from gay to straight.’ This aspect of MD’s complaint is substantiated and is therefore upheld.

Finding 4:
In relation to MD’s complaint (d) that:
‘MD was not welcomed at the church after his removal from the student leadership team.’
This aspect of MD’s complaint is substantiated and is therefore upheld.

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CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 11:43

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No. I think safeguarding should apply to all organisations. The church do too, hence the investigation and the statement from the Diocese.

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KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 03/07/2024 10:58

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 03/07/2024 10:20

Not ok in schools and hospitals.

Also, all leadership positions go to people who follow the aim of the organisation. You can’t appoint a leader who isn’t in step with the organisation’s direction of travel.

Show quote history

And to be clear, social ostracism is not ‘being asked to step back as a leader because you are no longer in sympathy with the organisations aims’.

Jehova’s Witnesses socially ostracise people who step out of line. Shunning is quite different.

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 03/07/2024 10:20

CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 09:55

Can I just confirm though - you think "praying away the gay", and social ostracisation by the church if praying doesn't work are OK?
Do you think "exorcisms" are OK too?

Not ok in schools and hospitals.

Also, all leadership positions go to people who follow the aim of the organisation. You can’t appoint a leader who isn’t in step with the organisation’s direction of travel.

LaundryOnTheLine · 03/07/2024 10:09

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LaundryOnTheLine · 03/07/2024 10:04

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Original poster
CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 09:55

Can I just confirm though - you think "praying away the gay", and social ostracisation by the church if praying doesn't work are OK?
Do you think "exorcisms" are OK too?

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CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 09:54

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Neither are most people who support gender ideology, yet we still push for it to be controlled because it can be damaging

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CassieMaddox · 03/07/2024 09:53

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😂
If you can't play the ball, foul the player. Only one "side" on this thread is taking this approach - ‘You have a different political opinion than me, I have the good and perfect opinions, therefore you must be wilfully bad.’

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