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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I just don't know who to vote for!!!!

108 replies

PCCmember · 30/06/2024 15:43

The election is in less than a week and I keep going round and round in circles not being able to decide who to vote for! I've quite politically engaged and I used to be an active member of a political party, but this time I really can't decide who to vote for. It's such a dismal choice and all parties have pretty negative aspects to their policies that I would find difficult to vote for. However personally I would prefer to vote for a candidate rather than spoil my ballot (totally respect those who chose to do so though!) even if I can only agree with some of their policies. This means choosing the least worst option, but I just can't seem to decide what this should be!

My constitutency is an incredibly safe Labour seat and the sitting MP will be re-elected. The choice facing me is as follows:

Liberal Democrat - This is the party a few years ago I would have described as my political home. However I quit the party over their complete disregard for women's and girl's rights to single-sex spaces. I have done the vote for policies quiz and it is stil the party whose policies I most strongly identify with (50%). I agree with their policies on democracy, economy, education, energy, health and social care, tax, immigration and transport. Given that no party will ever 100% align with my views if I am looking for the closest match, it should be the Lib Dems. But of course I completely disagree with their policies to introduce gender self-ID, end the spousal veto and to recognise non-binary identities in law. My local candidate is a (very) young man who has in the past called on Rosie Duffield to "reflect and say sorry".

Climate Party - A single issue party. I can't find any reference to their views on sex-based rights/gender identity. Can't find much about the local candidate.

Conservative - I don't have a strongly ideological objection to voting Conservative - indeed I have done so in the past. They were my second party (30% agreement) in the vote for policies quiz. However I don't feel that I can vote for this Conservative party due to their some of their policies - particularly immigration (Rwanda policy), the national service policy and the planned cuts to Higher Education (which is the industry which I work in!). However I of course support the policy to amend the Equality Act to make it clear that sex = biological sex. The local candidate has also made it unequivacably clear that he supports women's rights to same sex care, sports and services.

Reform - no thanks.

A completely random independent youtuber who seems to have got people to legally change their name to his so that he can stand in 11 constituencies!

Labour - I haven't been impressed at all by Keir Starmer's responses to the sex/gender issue and the shameful treatment of Rosie Duffield by him and his party. I also have a DD who is about to start secondary school at an Independent school so I just don't feel that I can vote Labour. The sittting MP (who will be re-elected) is a shadow deputy minister and is very much in the same vein as Keir Starmer (he used to be his deputy at one point). He avoids engaging with this issue and when he does he waffles about "safe spaces".

Worker's Party - George Galloway's Party. No thanks.

Green - although I do agree with some of their policies around public transport and PR, the party as a whole is too far left for me and the local candidate is TWAW.

So writing this out has made it clear to me that it's probably got to be either LD or Conservative, but I really can't decide which! If I were a single issue voter the choice would be easy, but other issues such as education, immigration, transport, health etc are all important too and I just can't decide which way I should hold my nose. Anyone else feeling completely unable to decide?

OP posts:
SinkingVoter · 03/07/2024 23:18

Another undecided here. We do have an SDP candidate here but I looked at their manifesto and there’s a lot in there that is not me (leaving ECHR for example). Of course they are meter going to get in but I want to vote for someone I would be happy to see in government.

It’s very odd. Labour are almost sure to have an historic landslide but so many people seem unsure and few seem to be actually keen on this version of Labour.

wonderstuff · 03/07/2024 22:51

RufustheFactualReindeer · 30/06/2024 16:48

So we’ve got tory, labour, reform, heritage 😳 green, lib dem, Hampshire independents and an actual independent

i know im not voting tory, reform or heritage, the independents seem very local

so its green, labour or lib dem. Like you i appear to be a natural lib dem but i don't like the same policies that you don’t like (really clumsy phrasing but you get my drift) i would like to vote labour but I’m really torn on the gender issues and the greens seem a little weird but obviously the environment is important

its haaaaaarrrddd 😩

Hampshire Independents are ex-UKIP who fell out with the party (not to be confused with Basingstoke Independents who are ex-Labour councillors who left when JC was leader).

I'm in a Tory safe seat and really don't know who to vote for, if Niko was standing I'd go with him. I was formally a Green party member, but there are so many lunatics in the party I worry and I left when they lost sight of what a woman is. I am of the opinion that voting matters, UKIP didn't get any MPs, but did get 4.5 million votes which pushed Brexit through. When Greens do well government have in the past adopted some of thier policies.

I think closer alignment to the EU is the most important thing for the economy and that economic growth is the only way to improve public services, is Lib Dem the strongest on that? Climate is also so important and GP are obviously strong there and also want EU membership.. I don't know. Historically UKIP have done well in my area, so probably a big reform vote - I dispair.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/07/2024 22:31

PCCmember · 03/07/2024 22:00

No SDP candidate standing in my constituency, hence not mentioning them in my list of options!

Sorry, I should have realised!

DuesToTheDirt · 03/07/2024 22:15

PlumpHobbit · 03/07/2024 20:34

I have the same problem, I was reading the BBC comparison earlier of what each wants to do, and I'll think oh that sounds good to one, then read something else for the same party and go absolutely not!

I need to use my vote as women fought so hard for us to have the vote, but all the parties are as bad as each other!

Yes, women died to get us the vote, and that is why I have always voted - until the last election, when I spoilt my ballot.

But they didn't die in order for us to vote our other rights away. What would they think of that? So then you're left with the parties that will not (or say they will not) reduce and restrict women's rights, and if there are none of those that you feel you can vote for, well...

PCCmember · 03/07/2024 22:04

So according to electoral calculus my constituency is projected to go from 50% Labour share of the vote to 66%! Am therefore strongly considering a Conservative vote on this issue alone.

No communist party candidate standing in my constituency either and even if they were there is no way I could vote for them if I find the Green party too far left!

OP posts:
PCCmember · 03/07/2024 22:00

ScrollingLeaves · 03/07/2024 17:58

SDP?
http://www.sdp.org.uk/manifesto

SEX-BASED RIGHTS

The liberal pursuit of individual autonomy and desire must be balanced by the common good. Some citizens feel at odds with the physiology and social role associated with their natal sex and can suffer distress. Transgender people should be treated with dignity and respect, in keeping with their acquired gender in most situations. However, these rights must be balanced against the need of natal females for safety and sporting fairness. Biological sex is real and politically significant. This requires an absolute stance on relevant legal definitions in some domains.
.
We support segregation by biological sex in sport. Fair competition is not secured if male-bodied transgender athletes are permitted to compete in women's sport and, in the case of contact sports, the risk of injury can increase significantly.

We support segregation by biological sex in prisons and women's refuges in order to safeguard the safety and privacy of natal females. Separate prisons or prison accommodation should be provided for transgender citizens to ensure their safety and privacy.

Transgender individuals wishing to change their sex marker should be allowed to do so. However, we support the continued necessity for medical gatekeeping in any legal change of sex marker. We oppose proposals that would allow someone to change their sex marker by self-identification only.

The Equality Act and Gender Recognition Act will be amended to ensure that sex-based rights which require protection in key domains are not undermined by a change in sex marker:
Healthcare spending and resources for gender dysphoric individuals, including long-term psychological intervention, should be provided at sufficient levels. Physical or drug-based medical treatments for gender dysphoria should be prohibited for anyone under 18 years of age.

We support the retention of biological sex and gender identity as distinct categories in public sector data gathering such as crime statistics, poverty metrics or public health research.

We support the use of plain English for discussions of biological sex in health and reproductive care.

No SDP candidate standing in my constituency, hence not mentioning them in my list of options!

OP posts:
PlumpHobbit · 03/07/2024 20:34

I have the same problem, I was reading the BBC comparison earlier of what each wants to do, and I'll think oh that sounds good to one, then read something else for the same party and go absolutely not!

I need to use my vote as women fought so hard for us to have the vote, but all the parties are as bad as each other!

BreadInCaptivity · 03/07/2024 19:17

I have 2 realistic options. An independent who is GC and the incumbent conservative GC MP.

Used to be a safe Tory seat but Labour is predicted to take it.

I'm voting conservative for the first time in my life (having been a labour member).

I'd vote for the Indy candidate if it wasn't predicted to be a close contest but all I'm hoping for now is to avoid a supermajority and an effective opposition.

Yes I've become a single issue voter and I'm not at all apologetic about it.

Undermining women's rights is a hill I will die on.

WatchOutMissMarpleIsAbout · 03/07/2024 19:07

Omlettes · 03/07/2024 19:00

Will it get there so late?

I hope so.

we posted Monday evening and it’s a Tuesday morning post so 🤞🤞
however I’m beginning to regret voting for Labour as I’m worried about taxes, and the trans issue but hey ho. I don’t think I could bring myself to vote Tory even though I’m not convinced by Starmer.

DuesToTheDirt · 03/07/2024 19:03

DC2008 · 03/07/2024 12:15

Depending on how you choose to spoil your vote, it may still be counted as a vote. But for me, don’t spoil it, don’t waste your vote, women died to give us the privilege to shape our future.

So who do you think the Suffragettes would be voting for? Would they vote for a party who were planning to redefine their sex?

Omlettes · 03/07/2024 19:00

WatchOutMissMarpleIsAbout · 01/07/2024 10:08

Ok thank you I’ve looked and it’s 0.2% in it for a Labour majority. I’m even more confused 😬😬

postal vote so I need to decide tonight

Will it get there so late?

Hummingbird75 · 03/07/2024 18:30

Also can't afford the eye watering taxes Labour are planning.

Hummingbird75 · 03/07/2024 18:29

I vote for conservative to preserve my rights and identity as a woman, no other party does that. Not one.

Secondly Labour WILL crash the economy as they always do, historically and factually, so I would prefer we kept our job and house. So a no brainer.

I could never vote for someone as untrustworthy as Starmer.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/07/2024 17:58

PCCmember · 30/06/2024 15:43

The election is in less than a week and I keep going round and round in circles not being able to decide who to vote for! I've quite politically engaged and I used to be an active member of a political party, but this time I really can't decide who to vote for. It's such a dismal choice and all parties have pretty negative aspects to their policies that I would find difficult to vote for. However personally I would prefer to vote for a candidate rather than spoil my ballot (totally respect those who chose to do so though!) even if I can only agree with some of their policies. This means choosing the least worst option, but I just can't seem to decide what this should be!

My constitutency is an incredibly safe Labour seat and the sitting MP will be re-elected. The choice facing me is as follows:

Liberal Democrat - This is the party a few years ago I would have described as my political home. However I quit the party over their complete disregard for women's and girl's rights to single-sex spaces. I have done the vote for policies quiz and it is stil the party whose policies I most strongly identify with (50%). I agree with their policies on democracy, economy, education, energy, health and social care, tax, immigration and transport. Given that no party will ever 100% align with my views if I am looking for the closest match, it should be the Lib Dems. But of course I completely disagree with their policies to introduce gender self-ID, end the spousal veto and to recognise non-binary identities in law. My local candidate is a (very) young man who has in the past called on Rosie Duffield to "reflect and say sorry".

Climate Party - A single issue party. I can't find any reference to their views on sex-based rights/gender identity. Can't find much about the local candidate.

Conservative - I don't have a strongly ideological objection to voting Conservative - indeed I have done so in the past. They were my second party (30% agreement) in the vote for policies quiz. However I don't feel that I can vote for this Conservative party due to their some of their policies - particularly immigration (Rwanda policy), the national service policy and the planned cuts to Higher Education (which is the industry which I work in!). However I of course support the policy to amend the Equality Act to make it clear that sex = biological sex. The local candidate has also made it unequivacably clear that he supports women's rights to same sex care, sports and services.

Reform - no thanks.

A completely random independent youtuber who seems to have got people to legally change their name to his so that he can stand in 11 constituencies!

Labour - I haven't been impressed at all by Keir Starmer's responses to the sex/gender issue and the shameful treatment of Rosie Duffield by him and his party. I also have a DD who is about to start secondary school at an Independent school so I just don't feel that I can vote Labour. The sittting MP (who will be re-elected) is a shadow deputy minister and is very much in the same vein as Keir Starmer (he used to be his deputy at one point). He avoids engaging with this issue and when he does he waffles about "safe spaces".

Worker's Party - George Galloway's Party. No thanks.

Green - although I do agree with some of their policies around public transport and PR, the party as a whole is too far left for me and the local candidate is TWAW.

So writing this out has made it clear to me that it's probably got to be either LD or Conservative, but I really can't decide which! If I were a single issue voter the choice would be easy, but other issues such as education, immigration, transport, health etc are all important too and I just can't decide which way I should hold my nose. Anyone else feeling completely unable to decide?

SDP?
http://www.sdp.org.uk/manifesto

SEX-BASED RIGHTS

The liberal pursuit of individual autonomy and desire must be balanced by the common good. Some citizens feel at odds with the physiology and social role associated with their natal sex and can suffer distress. Transgender people should be treated with dignity and respect, in keeping with their acquired gender in most situations. However, these rights must be balanced against the need of natal females for safety and sporting fairness. Biological sex is real and politically significant. This requires an absolute stance on relevant legal definitions in some domains.
.
We support segregation by biological sex in sport. Fair competition is not secured if male-bodied transgender athletes are permitted to compete in women's sport and, in the case of contact sports, the risk of injury can increase significantly.

We support segregation by biological sex in prisons and women's refuges in order to safeguard the safety and privacy of natal females. Separate prisons or prison accommodation should be provided for transgender citizens to ensure their safety and privacy.

Transgender individuals wishing to change their sex marker should be allowed to do so. However, we support the continued necessity for medical gatekeeping in any legal change of sex marker. We oppose proposals that would allow someone to change their sex marker by self-identification only.

The Equality Act and Gender Recognition Act will be amended to ensure that sex-based rights which require protection in key domains are not undermined by a change in sex marker:
Healthcare spending and resources for gender dysphoric individuals, including long-term psychological intervention, should be provided at sufficient levels. Physical or drug-based medical treatments for gender dysphoria should be prohibited for anyone under 18 years of age.

We support the retention of biological sex and gender identity as distinct categories in public sector data gathering such as crime statistics, poverty metrics or public health research.

We support the use of plain English for discussions of biological sex in health and reproductive care.

http://www.sdp.org.uk/manifesto

UtterlyOtterly · 03/07/2024 17:48

Snowypeaks We have a Christian People's Alliance candidate. They would appear to know what a woman is too but their manifesto lost me when they mentioned doing things not for the good of the population but for the glory of their god or some such.

UtterlyOtterly · 03/07/2024 17:43

Snowypeaks It is interesting how the Communists are the ones with the right-wing views on women now. Who would have thought it?

BezMills · 03/07/2024 17:42

I feel your pain! We have a chance to flip a huge tory majority, in a seat that has never been labour, and I'm adding my vote, with reservations.
Maybe it's a hopeless cause, we'll know in about 36 hours!

Snowypeaks · 03/07/2024 14:52

I know my vote will not change anything, so I'm voting Communist Party. Only party in my area that genuinely supports women's rights. If we'd had a Tory candidate who was not TWAW, I might have been tempted but they've made it easy for me to go elsewhere. No PoW. Labour will get in anyway but I can't bring myself to help them even though their candidate is great in other ways, but they are full-on, mad TWAW.
So I hear I'm a Communist now...

ScrapeMyArse · 03/07/2024 13:10

Safe Labour seat. Was reluctantly voting labour until about 4 days ago when I suddenly realised I don't have to. I don't have to vote for a party that thinks my inescapable material reality is secondary to an identity men have the freedom to choose.

Open to voting independent candidate or radical lefty party - have voted communist in the past, after leaving labour. These small left wing parties are never going to rule the country but I wouldn't mind if they reminded Labour of their socialist roots and I'm genuinely on board with some of their policies.

Currently researching Communist and Workers party candidates for my area. To be clear I'd have voted for my labour MP if I liked her but sadly she's one of those women who thinks they can give consent on behalf of other women.

Workasateamanddoitmyway · 03/07/2024 13:07

DC2008 · 03/07/2024 12:15

Depending on how you choose to spoil your vote, it may still be counted as a vote. But for me, don’t spoil it, don’t waste your vote, women died to give us the privilege to shape our future.

This👆

DC2008 · 03/07/2024 12:15

Depending on how you choose to spoil your vote, it may still be counted as a vote. But for me, don’t spoil it, don’t waste your vote, women died to give us the privilege to shape our future.

Pudmyboy · 02/07/2024 09:22

Saw an article (skim-read) in Unherd saying JKR is suggesting voting for the Communist Party if you are unsure what to do with your vote, due to their stance on women's rights.....and I remember a rehashed labour party breakaway group (SDP??) which seemed to support women's rights......
For the first time in forever (yes I just quoted a song from Frozen!) I really don't know who to vote for, and probably won't when I put my 'x' in the box....or do I spoil my ballot??? Is any notice taken of the number of spoiled ballots?? Argh!!!

WatchOutMissMarpleIsAbout · 02/07/2024 08:02

Finally had a reply from our prospective Labour candidate

The Labour Party believes it's incredibly important we protect female-only spaces and tackle misogyny wherever it's found.

let’s see shall we?

Appalonia · 01/07/2024 11:43

My constituency is a safe Labour seat so guess it doesn't matter what I do! Hard tho in seats where it will. Will prob spoil my ballot. What a shitshow

WatchOutMissMarpleIsAbout · 01/07/2024 11:26

I’ve decided independent or Labour. Tories have been a shit show and I absolutely couldn’t bring myself to vote for them. LD never on women alone and Reform never.