Non binary children

My daughter wants to cut her hair short and often likes wear comfortable 'boys' clothing. However, she says she won't cut her hair short because if she does everyone will think she is non-binary/trans - and that is now deeply unfashionable (in her school). 🙂But also, how depressing that a girl thinks she can't have short hair and wear what she likes and still be seen as A GIRL

I just can't get my head round the Tennants annoucing this on Insta along with fhe new pronouns. Kid was 9 I believe at the time. Now the whole family seem invested in this, Pride celebrated in the home etc. How the hell does the child row back from this when he wants to? If I was one of the siblings I would be tempted to come out as NB just to soak up a bit of that attention!

If I were to be of a certain mind-set then I could easily label my 10 yr old DD as non-binary, possibly even trans.

• she typically dresses in 'boys' clothes because she likes trousers with real pockets and tops that cover her belly.
• her favourite colour is blue and she is currently obsessed with all things dinosaur
• but she also still has some dolls and likes making clothes for her soft toys
• she has good friends who are both boys and girls
• she finds the idea of one day having periods and growing breasts pretty disgusting and very embarrassing
• she likes doing outdoorsy activities like archery and kayaking
• she doesn't do makeup and skincare routines like many of her female friends do (at 10 yrs old, they have 5 step skin care routines and teach each other how to apply makeup to do that thing where it changes the shape of your nose and jawline FGS)

But she's not non-binary, or trans she's just a kid who likes a range of different things and is still developing her personality and discovering new and interesting things.

Trying to force a kid into a set of stereotypes label them and make them conform to a societal niche seems to me to be the exact opposite of what parents should be doing and the exact opposite of what some of these 'trans-kid parents' seem to think they are doing.

I find it all so confusing and warped.

"Non-binary" child = vegan cat.

It's that simple.

But you're still basing that opinion on gender stereotypes aren't you?

It's a load of bollox.

For some completely inexplicable reason (heavy sarcasm) it always seems to be the female nonbinaries who have to be mutilated, whereas male nonbinaries more often than not look indistinguishable from a beardy bloke.

Feminism will try address negative stereotypes so that people are not restricted by them.

Whereas advocates for non-binary will try and disguise their child's sex in order that they are not affected by them.

But that does nothing to address stereotyping in society generally.

It's understandable, but ultimately rather useless. and, of course, their child's sex will become fairly evident.

Plus as Mrs Overton pointed out above, it cannot be healthy to constantly tell a child they should hide their own sex!

I think some of the rise in non binary girls comes from shame. Shame at having a developing female body.

That was often the cause of anorexia in the same age group, when that was prevalent.

It's ironic because TRAs talk about Pride a lot but I think we should encourage girls to be proud of being girls, rather than ashamed.

[I know this isn't directly relevant to the Tennants]

I did think it was just about people who rejected gender stereotypes. I thought it was harmless apart from the annoying pronoun salad. However, I was confused by the underground poster for Pride showing a woman with a mastectomy which said They/Them - implying that people who identify as non-binary can feel the need to alter their bodies drastically.

I can kind of see the logic partway, in that one wants to question stereotypes and sexism, and start from a position of not wanting to limit your child by imposing stereotypes on them.

That's exactly what 'gender critical' people do. It's not criticising gender nonconformity, it's criticising the bloody gender stereotypes.
We were using the term on this board before 'trans' issues arose - it's the logic that produced 'let toys be toys'.

There's simply no need for the swerve into declaring your child to be some sort of special case - no child should be bound by regressive stereotypes.

You have just described me as a child. I didn’t care what I was, as long as I could play out with my friends (who were both male and female, and equally as unbothered).

I can’t help but wonder whether some (not all- some people have always questioned their sex) people just don’t have enough to think about, or enough freedom to work off their stress physically, so start to overthink life.

Is NB a mainly female thing - that is when the child / adult chooses to identify that way rather than imposed by parents?

As a former tomboy who ran with the boys at primary school and thought girl's stuff was a bit silly, isn't this just a way for girls to disassociate themselves from 'stupid girly stuff'.

All very normal, been going on for decades, now it's an ideology espoused by eminently clever and erudite luvvies.

I think a lot of people forget that children are people.

And yet, paradoxically, despite them both claiming to be 'non binary', if she is involved in a sexual relationship with this non binary partner she will have a very binary choice about whether she will need to use contraceptives or not, depending on both their sexes...

So as a politicians who hates the way people are limited by their sex, he’s decided not to use his position to fight sexism in society, but instead to pretend his child will never see their own genitals and twig they are a boy or girl.

What a Numpty.

I know it is piers Morgan but it is worth a listen - skip to 6 min in to hear the main points. Basically parent buying into this non binary trend & forcing into their child.

I distinctly remember overhearing an adult conversation when I was a child in the 1970s. A family friend’s boy had asked for a doll like Tiny Tears for his birthday. The adult conversation went along the lines of shock and surprise, and then a collective “well, why not, it’s just a toy” from the entire group. The boy got the doll and he loved it and the world carried on turning. But I remember the adult reactions really well as they all processed a new bit of information and not one of them could come up with a reason against the idea. They all knew it wouldn’t make him a girl or gay. Working class Northern city if that makes any difference.

I had dolls when I was a child but I also loved going next door to my friends house because her brother had a hot wheels set. I loved it.
Nobody thought it was weird.
My friend brought her DD round and DD brought a couple of Barbie dolls along. My sons spent all afternoon fighting because they all wanted to play with the barbies .
Again nobody thought it was weird.And nobody grew up to be non binary or trans. They were just having fun playing with different toys.
Oh the good old days 😌

That level of desire, though, can transmit itself unconsciously to the child.

There was an excellent documentary on Neflix a few years ago 'La Peite Fille'.. about a young French boy who wanted to be a girl, and was socially transitioned, in spite of reisitance from his school. His mother was very open about the fact she was devastated not to have a much longed for daughter. Children pick these things up.

Can you give some examples of these 'ambiguous' things?

I agree, but most people would try and reconcile the fact that they didn't get a child of their preferred sex, rather than moulding the child to either be the opposite sex or non-binary.

In a normal world, parents who did deny their child's actual sex would be considered mentally unstable, but sadly we are living in a world where they are applauded and encouraged.

First comes propping up of sex based stereotypes. Next, judgemental parenting. Not many non binary children in big housing schemes. It's a load of homophobic, Patriarchal shit. The first 30 years of this century will be remembered for this.