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DysonSphere · 24/07/2024 16:08

I haven't read the thread. The title was horrifying enough.

I feel exhausted.

UpThePankhurst · 24/07/2024 15:47

Really have to wonder why you'd send someone like this with this history to represent your country.

It's not exactly an honour they have earned, and they are going to drag the Dutch team and the country itself through a lot of dirty linen and negative publicity instead of being a focus of pride and celebration.

Bit of a thick decision really.

lcakethereforeIam · 24/07/2024 15:34

There was an article in the DM, behind their paywall. A journalist tried to speak him while the Dutch team were en route with a gaggle of bodyguards. He just stonewalled him.

murasaki · 24/07/2024 15:28

fedupandstuck · 24/07/2024 15:23

I think he should be forced to do the standard media interviews, so that he can be asked about this constantly, and be referred to as a sex offender to his face and in front of the other players etc.

Exactly.

fedupandstuck · 24/07/2024 15:23

murasaki · 24/07/2024 15:21

Apparently he's also being protected by not doing any media. I think he should be pursued around town by a gaggle of loud journalists.

I think he should be forced to do the standard media interviews, so that he can be asked about this constantly, and be referred to as a sex offender to his face and in front of the other players etc.

murasaki · 24/07/2024 15:21

Apparently he's also being protected by not doing any media. I think he should be pursued around town by a gaggle of loud journalists.

Grammarnut · 24/07/2024 15:02

ScrollingLeaves · 24/07/2024 12:01

And they have the greatest use of child sexual abuse pornography in Europe.

I did not know that. Appalling. A boycott against this man would be welcome - sadly, I doubt it will happen.

Kucinghitam · 24/07/2024 14:47

murasaki · 24/07/2024 11:44

It does seem odd that GB can manage to not take a woman who hit a horse (and rightly so) and the Dutch are happy to take a child rapist.

Indeed.

It's a bit like a mirror image of that "man or bear" thing... Nobody thinks the horse asked for it, but sadly it seems an awful lot of people think the child did.

misscockerspaniel · 24/07/2024 13:58

murasaki · 24/07/2024 11:44

It does seem odd that GB can manage to not take a woman who hit a horse (and rightly so) and the Dutch are happy to take a child rapist.

I agree - her behaviour was abhorrent - but it is ironic that the lawyer who raised the complaint on behalf of a client, is Dutch and based in the Netherlands.

ScrollingLeaves · 24/07/2024 12:01

Grammarnut · 24/07/2024 09:57

Agree. EU law is not concerned in local paedophilia laws (i.e. not in its 'competence') - the EU is not some utopia where women have all the rights you would like, it depends on the country and the local agenda - and the Netherlands' view on prostitution and 'consenting adults' fits exactly with having no laws on online grooming and little worry about paedophilia - i.e. they are sex-positive. A society that believes prostitution and pornography harm no-one is just as likely (very likely) to dismiss child-rape, where the child has been groomed so appears to consent, as fine, not a huge crime at all, because, look, they enjoyed it and they 'consented'. This is the logical outcome of sex-positivity ideas, grounded in queer theory.

Edited

And they have the greatest use of child sexual abuse pornography in Europe.

murasaki · 24/07/2024 11:44

It does seem odd that GB can manage to not take a woman who hit a horse (and rightly so) and the Dutch are happy to take a child rapist.

Grammarnut · 24/07/2024 09:57

Userxyd · 24/07/2024 05:31

Ugh how can anyone be interested in a man who did that to a 12 year old?
How is he walking around freely let alone representing the Netherlands at the Olympics.
I'm shocked at their lack of laws around online grooming and paedophilia- I'd've thought EU law would require proper sentencing etc for crimes of that magnitude especially cos it seems like a civilised place otherwise.
I guess it goes with the prostitution approach but I thought they were liberal in a sensible progressive way about consenting adults etc - this just makes me think it's all just about seedy sex and drug money and they don't care about children getting harmed in the process. Shame on them ☹️

Agree. EU law is not concerned in local paedophilia laws (i.e. not in its 'competence') - the EU is not some utopia where women have all the rights you would like, it depends on the country and the local agenda - and the Netherlands' view on prostitution and 'consenting adults' fits exactly with having no laws on online grooming and little worry about paedophilia - i.e. they are sex-positive. A society that believes prostitution and pornography harm no-one is just as likely (very likely) to dismiss child-rape, where the child has been groomed so appears to consent, as fine, not a huge crime at all, because, look, they enjoyed it and they 'consented'. This is the logical outcome of sex-positivity ideas, grounded in queer theory.

0Oo · 24/07/2024 07:58

ageratum1 · 26/06/2024 09:46

Because he has served his sentence.

Except he did not serve his sentence.

"Under a treaty between the Netherlands and UK, Van de Velde was transferred to the Netherlands to serve his sentence. The sentence was at that time adjusted in line with Dutch law, and the charge of rape was substituted for that of fornication.[10] After serving a year of his original four year sentence, he was released from prison. The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) condemned his comments at the time, stating that his "lack of remorse and self-pity is breathtaking"

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_van_de_Velde

Steven van de Velde - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_van_de_Velde#cite_note-10

SinnerBoy · 24/07/2024 06:11

biscuitandcake · 22/07/2024 19:32

My personal opinion is we should have agreed to send Van De Velde (and others like him) back to the Netherlands but made him swim tied to a large millstone.

I'm not a religious person, but sometimes, going Biblical does seem appropriate:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/search=Matthew%2018%3A6&version=KJV

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

Userxyd · 24/07/2024 05:31

Ugh how can anyone be interested in a man who did that to a 12 year old?
How is he walking around freely let alone representing the Netherlands at the Olympics.
I'm shocked at their lack of laws around online grooming and paedophilia- I'd've thought EU law would require proper sentencing etc for crimes of that magnitude especially cos it seems like a civilised place otherwise.
I guess it goes with the prostitution approach but I thought they were liberal in a sensible progressive way about consenting adults etc - this just makes me think it's all just about seedy sex and drug money and they don't care about children getting harmed in the process. Shame on them ☹️

Grammarnut · 22/07/2024 21:45

biscuitandcake · 22/07/2024 19:32

If you travel to Spain and rob a bank there you are subject to Spanish law. However if you flee back to the UK before they catch you, Spain then has to ask the UK to extradite you. Different countries apply different approaches to extradition and different terms and conditions. Some don't get extradited at all (think the US woman who killed the teenager through driving on the wrong side of the road but flew back to America.)

In the case of you robbing a Spanish bank, you would likely be extradited fairly easily. If say it was an African country accusing you of spreading homosexuality then no because that would clash with human rights law. But the UK is fairly reasonable about extradition.

The Dutch are more awkward, and apply more conditions. It's an issue even outside of Van de Velde since until the start of this month it wasn't illegal to groom kids online for example. So your Dutch nonce could be online talking to a child about sex in another country. Technically he is committing a crime in that country (since the communication is also happening there). But good luck getting the Dutch to extradite.

There's a reason it's a major hub for child porn.

My personal opinion is we should have agreed to send Van De Velde (and others like him) back to the Netherlands but made him swim tied to a large millstone.

Totally agree. The Netherlands needs to get its act together and recognise paedophilia.

biscuitandcake · 22/07/2024 19:35

Ironically if the UK hadn't pushed ahead with the extradition it would have resulted in longer term consequences for him. Since he would have been subject to an open arrest warrant and would not be able to travel abroad as easily and compete. But I don't think the UK authorities could have anticipated him being integrated back into Dutch sport so easily, let alone the Olympics.

biscuitandcake · 22/07/2024 19:32

Grammarnut · 22/07/2024 10:05

Was his crime committed in the UK? If so, UK law applies, not that of the Netherlands, surely?

If you travel to Spain and rob a bank there you are subject to Spanish law. However if you flee back to the UK before they catch you, Spain then has to ask the UK to extradite you. Different countries apply different approaches to extradition and different terms and conditions. Some don't get extradited at all (think the US woman who killed the teenager through driving on the wrong side of the road but flew back to America.)

In the case of you robbing a Spanish bank, you would likely be extradited fairly easily. If say it was an African country accusing you of spreading homosexuality then no because that would clash with human rights law. But the UK is fairly reasonable about extradition.

The Dutch are more awkward, and apply more conditions. It's an issue even outside of Van de Velde since until the start of this month it wasn't illegal to groom kids online for example. So your Dutch nonce could be online talking to a child about sex in another country. Technically he is committing a crime in that country (since the communication is also happening there). But good luck getting the Dutch to extradite.

There's a reason it's a major hub for child porn.

My personal opinion is we should have agreed to send Van De Velde (and others like him) back to the Netherlands but made him swim tied to a large millstone.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/07/2024 11:13

Grammarnut · 22/07/2024 10:05

Was his crime committed in the UK? If so, UK law applies, not that of the Netherlands, surely?

It seems not, as it was treated slightly differently as a crime when he had returned to the Netherlands ( if I have remembered correctly from the first posts). Then they shortened the short sentence by 75%, so it was only one year.

Grammarnut · 22/07/2024 10:05

biscuitandcake · 22/07/2024 07:24

The Netherlands has a different attitude to extradition compared to the UK (they are less keen). As a result, part of the deal to extradite him to the UK to face trial will have included the agreement that if sentenced and given a custodial sentence he would be allowed to finish it in the Netherlands (standard agreement). I suspect it would also have included the agreement that he would only be prosecuted for things that are also crimes in the Netherlands - so the 2 years of sexual communication with a minor would not have been included because it wasn't a crime in the Netherlands (I know), so ASFAIK he wasn't prosecuted for this. Normally I think a UK citizen would be. Ultimately the UK authorities would not have had much choice about sending him back to the Netherlands. Pretty much as soon as he was back in NL the Dutch authorities released him.

Also, as disturbing as this is, the majority of the NOC (Dutch Olympics committee) are women. Sigh.

Was his crime committed in the UK? If so, UK law applies, not that of the Netherlands, surely?

biscuitandcake · 22/07/2024 07:24

Userxyd · 22/07/2024 06:15

This. Wtf happened at sentencing for him to get away with only 4 years in the first place, how was he out in a quarter of that time, and how many different officials had to approve the decision to let him represent Holland in this sport?
Let me guess- all of them men? None with any daughters/female relatives/know any females they give a shit about?
Disgusting miscarriage of justice from every individual involved at those 3 points that gave him his freedom, his career and his dreams back unscathed.
Meanwhile we can only guess how his poor victim is getting on. He should be electronically tagged and monitored for life, only permitted to work in secure locations with no children anywhere near him, and donate half his earnings to her.

The Netherlands has a different attitude to extradition compared to the UK (they are less keen). As a result, part of the deal to extradite him to the UK to face trial will have included the agreement that if sentenced and given a custodial sentence he would be allowed to finish it in the Netherlands (standard agreement). I suspect it would also have included the agreement that he would only be prosecuted for things that are also crimes in the Netherlands - so the 2 years of sexual communication with a minor would not have been included because it wasn't a crime in the Netherlands (I know), so ASFAIK he wasn't prosecuted for this. Normally I think a UK citizen would be. Ultimately the UK authorities would not have had much choice about sending him back to the Netherlands. Pretty much as soon as he was back in NL the Dutch authorities released him.

Also, as disturbing as this is, the majority of the NOC (Dutch Olympics committee) are women. Sigh.

FairyLightBan · 22/07/2024 06:37

The poor girl having to see him on TV as a hero representing his country

Userxyd · 22/07/2024 06:24

Ugh, so he started grooming her when he was 17 and she was 10. That is utterly heartbreaking- he spent all that time planning it and making her think she loved him. Imagine a ten year old what they would otherwise be doing and all that time he was plotting to rape her in 2 years time when he'd get less of a sentence. Absolutely callous predatory monster.
That poor girl. I'm absolutely furious for her - that sentence is an utter joke and was surely based on his career being over, when instead he's given gold plated accommodation and protection from the press?
We can't let this lie- need to follow it up with the Dutch and British authorities to check how his sentence and served time was so short.