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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR calls Labour's Bluff - Offering Meeting leadership only on her terms

382 replies

fromorbit · 24/06/2024 20:44

JKR is playing at a different level. After Starmer and Reeves offered to meet with her she gave them her conditions.

I'll be happy to meet after NoXYinXXprisons, Lesbian Labour, Womens Rights Network, WomansPlaceUK and Alliance LGB have been given in person meetings with the Labour leadership. I'd also like to know whether Angela Rayner still considers the last two organisations hate groups.

They are trapped either they now have to meet with gay and women's groups and listen to them something they are desperate not to do. It is not impossible then that Reeves at least can be made to see some sense. Even talking with these groups and JKR will also make TRAs go ballistic and many will leave the party. Chances are that Labour will promise a bunch of stuff to JKR which If Labour still follow gender nonsense after that they can be fully held to account for. If they promise single sex spaces are safe then every time that is breached Labour's credibility will be on the line

Or if they refuse to meet with the groups they prove EVERYTHING JKR said in her essay was right.

The media are now hyping the meeting further locking Labour in

BRING IT ON
Keir Starmer insists he WILL meet with JK Rowling to thrash out trans and gender rights & ‘respects’ her views
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28714134/keir-starmer-jk-rowling-trans/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/labour-gender-transition-recognition-process-trans.

a woman in a blue dress stands in front of a sign that says rift

Keir insists he WILL meet with JK Rowling to thrash out trans and gender rights

KEIR Starmer has tonight insisted he will meet with JK Rowling to thrash out trans and gender rights – saying he “respects her views”. The Labour leader dropped the bombshell …

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28714134/keir-starmer-jk-rowling-trans

OP posts:
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AGlinnerOfHope · 27/06/2024 14:03

It was so clear on the debate last night that Keir was trying to be nice and even handed, balancing the needs of both and protecting vulnerable women but HADN'T LISTENED TO THE WOMEN TRYING TO TELL HIM THE CURRENT SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK!

I shouted. I did.

fromorbit · 27/06/2024 12:56

maltravers · 27/06/2024 10:32

He can’t afford any meeting before the election as JKR will undoubtedly “report back” on Twitter afterwards. I don’t suppose he’ll meet her after the election either tbh. No need then, votes will have been cast.

The next election after this is in May 2025 - 10 months away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_United_Kingdom_local_elections

Most of the country councils in England are up for election - the ones that control education/social services.

The year after control of Wales Scotland is up for a vote.

Kind of think the question of whether women exist will crop up in those elections too if Labour decide they don't to keep TRAs happy.

There is NOWHERE for Starmer to run long term from the challenge JKR laid down. Either meet with JKR and women, or keep on the denial road which ends in the chasm of delusion and chamber of lost votes.

Once Labour is in power gender stuff becomes their problem. The Tories actually haven't used it much because they know gender screwed them up too. In opposition that is not so much of an issue.

2025 United Kingdom local elections - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_United_Kingdom_local_elections

OP posts:
CaveMum · 27/06/2024 11:57

We only have to look at all the work Caroline Criado-Perez did around PPE for women in her fantastic book, or the stuff we are hearing about female footballers being more prone to ACL injuries (because they are wearing boots designed for small men's feet rather than boots designed to fit a female foot).

The evidence is everywhere - male and female bodies are different, it's not that hard to comprehend!

NoBinturongsHereMate · 27/06/2024 11:19

Beowulfa · 27/06/2024 10:49

Anatomy is fascinating.

My riding instructor was telling us (mixed sex class) at the weekend about how men and women sit slightly differently in the saddle due to the differences in seat bones and hip sockets.

And archery instructors would be entirely unsurprised by the 'you can tell sex by elbows' paper, having seen the different patterns of bowstring bruising on archers' bow-holding arm.

It crops up everywhere if you're looking.

UpThePankhurst · 27/06/2024 11:03

misscockerspaniel · 27/06/2024 10:31

Starmer is either a good old fashioned misogynist or he has a strong conflict of interest/skin in the game.

I'm afraid if he has skin in the game it confirms the misogyny.

He believes that a male has the absolute right of supremacy and freedom to trample females in their seeking of self expression and gratification.

And he believes that a female who identifies as one of her betters gains more power and freedom by doing so.

In short, he believes that men are more important humans with primacy over women, and wishes to fix this in law.

I wish he'd have the guts to own it and try to justify it instead of try to dress it up and skirt around it and cover it up, which shows he knows damn well that it's wrong and would make him look an absolute arse if he had the guts to be honest.

I also think that due to the now inescapable conflicts with other people's freedom of belief and rights, and a belief that such prejudice is righteous, that someone with such skin in the game should not be standing for a position of responsibility requiring public duties of impartiality. They should be declaring conflict of interest.

BezMills · 27/06/2024 11:03

Beowulfa · 27/06/2024 10:49

Anatomy is fascinating.

My riding instructor was telling us (mixed sex class) at the weekend about how men and women sit slightly differently in the saddle due to the differences in seat bones and hip sockets.

yes, it's really interesting how often male-vs-female anatomy comes up and is important in sports, in matters not strictly related to athletic performance.

Saddles on bicycles is another one.

Igmum · 27/06/2024 10:57

@OvaHere spot on 💯👏👏👏

Beowulfa · 27/06/2024 10:49

BezMills · 27/06/2024 09:31

When I did my BSc. Hons in Anatomy at the University of Edinburgh Medical School, we covered this as part of our forensic anthropology module.

Using multiple measurements, including the angle in the pelvis mentioned above, it's reliably possible to determine the sex from the skeleton. There is of course significant variation between individuals of either sex, in any measurable characteristic, and that's where multiple measurements are used.

Anyway I don't think the TRA want to go down the rabbit hole of 'skeletal passing privilege', it's not an Osteo Beauty Parade. That wouldn't be fair to people who are blessed, for example, with massive Man Hands and massive Man Feet.

Gender Identity is 100% a mental process, and anyone can be any gender they want, without any need to get out the groinular callipers and measure they butt angles. I mean they can if they want, it's just not necessary.

Anatomy is fascinating.

My riding instructor was telling us (mixed sex class) at the weekend about how men and women sit slightly differently in the saddle due to the differences in seat bones and hip sockets.

NoSnowdrop · 27/06/2024 10:48

misscockerspaniel · 27/06/2024 10:31

Starmer is either a good old fashioned misogynist or he has a strong conflict of interest/skin in the game.

Pretty much both of those are certain.

WickedSerious · 27/06/2024 10:46

Igmum · 27/06/2024 09:06

Oh FFS 🤦‍♀️. The idiot current resident TRA is now challenging the human skeleton? Facts established for centuries? On the basis of something a random bloke posted online once? Give me strength.

On another note ❤️ JKR

I must have something to do with all those pregnant men we keep hearing about.

MaidOfAle · 27/06/2024 10:43

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 21:30

We've obviously found Captain Flip Flop's One True Belief, Kenwood

He seems to wholeheartedly believe men can be women if they want to - his other beliefs are more flexible.

A cartoonist needs to draw Starmer as a giant flip-flop the way they used to draw Blair as a lapdog.

EasternStandard · 27/06/2024 10:37

maltravers · 27/06/2024 10:32

He can’t afford any meeting before the election as JKR will undoubtedly “report back” on Twitter afterwards. I don’t suppose he’ll meet her after the election either tbh. No need then, votes will have been cast.

Yep there’s no meeting. No need he feels he has it in the bag and after has the mandate

maltravers · 27/06/2024 10:32

Boudiccaofsteel · 27/06/2024 07:21

So starmer has not yet arranged his meeting with JK Rowling and friends including women's groups like the Labour Women's Declaration ? I could ask if he is frit ..... a journalist needs to push him on this soon and he will need to explain why not

He can’t afford any meeting before the election as JKR will undoubtedly “report back” on Twitter afterwards. I don’t suppose he’ll meet her after the election either tbh. No need then, votes will have been cast.

misscockerspaniel · 27/06/2024 10:31

Starmer is either a good old fashioned misogynist or he has a strong conflict of interest/skin in the game.

Boudiccaofsteel · 27/06/2024 09:59

Exactly UpthePankhurst and this is why the journalists should be all over it as 51 per cent of the population have the right to know what they are voting for . How is he being let off the hook so easily ? Surely the ex DPP shouldn't be scared of a little cross exam ?

UpThePankhurst · 27/06/2024 09:33

DrMcCleodsBloatedCorpus · 27/06/2024 08:02

Frit? Or lazy?

He has no interest in anything they have to say, no intention of 'hearing' them and encountering difficult information publicly because then he would come under pressure to change the anti-women and child safeguarding he is so busily embracing - and he knows all this stuff, he just does not care or think women matter as men do and believes that women's role in life is basically as NPCs in male lives, but also does not want to have to say publicly 'I really don't care about women who don't want to have to provide their bodies to men as the price of their access to spaces because I think that's an appropriate requirement for men to make of women', and come out as a misogynist arse. He's shy.

And there wouldn't be a lovely shiny PR op in it for him as there would be if he had a cosy cup of tea with JRK.

Actually I have absolute faith that JKR would not make it cosy in the least, but both positive and negative publicity is still publicity, and JKR's name and face attracts notice.

Again: women are only relevant in how they can be used to be useful to this man. And the men and handmaidens he has stuffed the Labour party with .

BezMills · 27/06/2024 09:31

When I did my BSc. Hons in Anatomy at the University of Edinburgh Medical School, we covered this as part of our forensic anthropology module.

Using multiple measurements, including the angle in the pelvis mentioned above, it's reliably possible to determine the sex from the skeleton. There is of course significant variation between individuals of either sex, in any measurable characteristic, and that's where multiple measurements are used.

Anyway I don't think the TRA want to go down the rabbit hole of 'skeletal passing privilege', it's not an Osteo Beauty Parade. That wouldn't be fair to people who are blessed, for example, with massive Man Hands and massive Man Feet.

Gender Identity is 100% a mental process, and anyone can be any gender they want, without any need to get out the groinular callipers and measure they butt angles. I mean they can if they want, it's just not necessary.

VerasMacAndHat · 27/06/2024 09:24

Christinapple · 27/06/2024 00:40

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.336G8HA

You've never seen it? It's been doing the rounds for a while now and is often seen on gender critical twitter accounts with a lot of followers to "checkmate" trans people. That is, until the community note appears with the correction.

FFS! If I made a meme showing the DNA double helix to illustrate that the sex of ancient bones can be determined with 100% accuracy whether they are male or female, would that help?

DrMcCleodsBloatedCorpus · 27/06/2024 09:24

Igmum · 27/06/2024 09:06

Oh FFS 🤦‍♀️. The idiot current resident TRA is now challenging the human skeleton? Facts established for centuries? On the basis of something a random bloke posted online once? Give me strength.

On another note ❤️ JKR

Those skeletons are on the wrong side of gender identity history.

ActivePeony · 27/06/2024 09:12

Igmum · 27/06/2024 09:06

Oh FFS 🤦‍♀️. The idiot current resident TRA is now challenging the human skeleton? Facts established for centuries? On the basis of something a random bloke posted online once? Give me strength.

On another note ❤️ JKR

This. ☝

Igmum · 27/06/2024 09:06

Oh FFS 🤦‍♀️. The idiot current resident TRA is now challenging the human skeleton? Facts established for centuries? On the basis of something a random bloke posted online once? Give me strength.

On another note ❤️ JKR

DrMcCleodsBloatedCorpus · 27/06/2024 08:02

Boudiccaofsteel · 27/06/2024 07:21

So starmer has not yet arranged his meeting with JK Rowling and friends including women's groups like the Labour Women's Declaration ? I could ask if he is frit ..... a journalist needs to push him on this soon and he will need to explain why not

Frit? Or lazy?

Meetingofminds · 27/06/2024 07:55

Fucking absolutely genius!

Why can’t we have JK as PM !!!!

Runskiyoga · 27/06/2024 07:48

I think it could be really helpful if Wes Streeting and Bridget Phillipson could meet with Dr Cass.