Is there an election soon???

Same here. Gender ideology is embedded in the Labour Party no matter what Starmer says about preserving single sex spaces. He has only decided that in the last couple of weeks and he can change his mind in the next couple of weeks.
Starmer can't be trusted and the LP is just biding its time until it's in power.

I'm sad you disagree, TinselAngel

Is that you Wes? 😂

When the Conservatives took power there was an infamous joke about Labour leaving a note and saying 'There's no money left'.

It was followed up by ITV:
https://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-06-24/infamous-liam-byrne-treasury-memo-seen-for-first-time/

It frustrates me intensely.

Gordon Brown went around saying 'No one could have forseen the crash of 2008'.

Except me and DH did, and financially planned for it. We warned a number of our friends who were going for Northern Rock mortgages at the time. We had another friend who was working in the city in 2007, and he was literally having conversations with us about the WHEN bit of it. Theres no way that if he was doing this, there weren't loads of traders actively doing their jobs based on that notion too.

They also did PFI which was insane. I doing a job in which I read all the proposals for a couple of hospitals in the NW. I was reading the financials on it going, why in gods name are we doing this. They were financially illiterate. And thats before you consider the terms and restrictions that this placed on hospitals in terms of what they could do with their own building.

I voted Labour in 1997 and I totally get it. They did a lot of good. But please don't put on those rose tinted glasses and say they were financially massively better than the Tories.

Then austerity. Austerity was also financially illiterate in so many ways. Its cut budgets in ways which meant we ended up spending MORE because of unintended consequences later down the line. It killed the concept of 'the best cure is prevention' in health and crime etc.

But it was also a consequence of the mismanagement of the previous years. No one gets a free pass to say that 'the other party was worse'.

Then we had covid. Brexit was bad enough but Covid just compounded everything.

Frankly, I think theres a bunch of politicians who are good at making noise but fucking useless at numbers and running things on a practical level.

It is so goddam depressing. And I am sick to death of the blame game, piss poor excuses, dodging of perfectly fucking reasonable questions and the lack of responsibility taking. You NEVER have good management with that culture.

But it's worth remembering that had they been reelected, Labour was going to have money problems, even back then. They were going to have to start making cuts. And much of what they did for the health services was funded by tying the system to long term debt, which is still bleeding the NHS. Blair's decisions then are one reason the Conservative governments since then have not been able to make much headway in health.

This time they have no money to play with. The world recession and COVID mean there are no choices with money. (And don't imagine that had they been in power Labour would have made better decisions.)

What do you mean nothing has been said? It's been a huge topic in the media for several years, on an ongoing basis.

It's blowing up now because people are trying to figure out who to vote for and many hoped Labour would come out with something sensible.

I'd suggest that a lot of people allowed their hope to cloud their judgement, but in any case, Labour have bottled it, so it's a hot topic.

"I remember Tony Blair. I remember the hope, the SureStart centres, the drop in child poverty, the way things seemed much better....I just want that again!"

Zelda, I remember that too and would dearly like that again too but this Labour is not the Labour of 97. This Labour are committed to maintaining current Tory general spending and welfare spending levels. They are not saying that they will tax and spend, in fact they're saying they'll refuse to raise taxes.

I think that this Labour is coasting on the memories and hopes that people like you and me have of Labour 97.

So, given that Labour are refusing to spend to repair the country after austerity, their social policies are all they've got to differentiate themselves from the Tories. And I disagree with their social policies with regards to women's sex-based rights and I don't support their suggested policies to resolve the conflict between women's rights and the demands of men who say they want society to see them as women. I don't support their proposed policy to ban conversion therapy because they will be legislating against the advice of the Cass Report. I don't support their policy to allow the teaching of gender ideology in schools.

If Labour gave me a reason to vote for them, I would in a heartbeat but they seem determined to ignore voters like me.

Yeah,all over again.

I'm getting deja vu.

To my mind, what Tony Blair did was mainstream and democratise materialistic values; and yes, that did result in a more material levelling up......but it also solidified Thatcherite economics. I remember the Blair government being target obsessed - everything became about measuring, league tables and targets.

All of this.

Labour are not entitled to or deserve my vote any more than another party. They have to work for it.

I fear you'll be disappointed.

@ZeldaFighter on many issues the Tories have not done a good job. Understatement. On the genderwoo stuff they realized there is good reason to slam on the brakes whereas other parties (including Labour) appear to be still wanting to accelerate. Its taken a lot of time for me to realise just how much DEI inititatives fostering pro TQ+ approaches have damaged the civil service, journalism and the police. This seems to have been targeted activity with long term and quite scary aims. Some parties (Labour included) don't agree that this is the case. Some of the unions have been awful. Will Labour politicians stand against them?

The CASS report has only recently come out but was set in train by this government in 2020. Section 35 was brought in play to stop the Scottish plans for opening up self-ID from 16+ (this was in 2023). I know its taken a lot of pushing to get the current government to listen and learn about what is going on, but there are signs they are listening. Far fewer signs from Labour or Lib Dem and very few signs from the Greens.

Its been going on a while (more than a few weeks or months) but this is the point at which parties choose what to say in their manifestos to differentiate from other parties. Not too surprising that there is an emphasis in right wing politics and right wing press on this topic. Its something that the Tories are right about. Not too surprising that there has been very little about this (or suggestions that its not contentious) in the left wing press.

I look at other countries which are in a much worse pickle than we are. Anyone prefer the approaches to women's rights in Australia or Canada? It feels like there is a correlation between left wing governments and pushing for acceptance of gender ideology. I am bracing myself for unpleasant changes with this new government and hope that they will be as open to slamming the brakes on as the Tories have been of late.

The Labour Party are committed to abiding by the recommendations of the Cass Review (commissioned by the Tories) and have confirmed that they won't lift the block on the Scottish government's gender reforms, a block delivered by the Tories. I agree that lots of the crap has happened under the Tories, but these are two concrete examples of how they did at least, late in the day, out some brakes on. If these two things hadn't happened we would be in an even worse state. Kier's "I can only understand biology if a man tells me about it" approach tells me all I need to know. They can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned

If Labour lose this election (which is extremely unlikely) because of their capitulation to tras. That's on them not us.

I'm sick to the tits of the term 'culture war'.

If there is one, it's because politicians and organisations allowed themselves to be so captured by activists that they abandoned sense and logic, and then tried to bully and intimidate women into shutting up.

And suddenly it's a war when we object? Fuck that shit.

And fuck Labour, too. I don't want a leader who throws his own MP to the wolves for telling the truth, and then agrees with a man saying the same bloody thing.

He's got a few days left to put it right, and I don't see them being used wisely right now.

Rather than the Tories having enabled Trans Ideology, I personally see it as more of a generational issue - in that it was the product, and end result, of post modernistic theories come of age. Regardless of the colour of national government it has taken hold everywhere.

Thankfully, though, it has now been apprehended and some measures taken to halt its steady march. Lots of hard work left to do, though, as the incoming government is not going to do anything to further curb its progress, and is, in fact, look set to further embed it.

The good news, I think, is that Labour are on the back foot now - always having to respond to, and be answerable for, their decisions and evasions; and their timing is awful. Starmer said he was going to "learn from what happened" with the Scottish GRA, but he hasn't shown any signs of learning anything at all. He is set to act in the face of mounting evidence that he should not.

The unraveling of this construct will continue apace and in fact will likely accelerate because its days are numbered - and it will not be so easy to put resistance down to " culture wars" as Labour will be the party in government.
I predict a very quick succession of the inevitable as policies and their consequences come more forcefully into focus.

With all due respect, if Lia Thomas peaked you you are fairly new to this all and there are women here much more informed for much longer.

Very true.

I just think getting excited is silly. They're all terrible (yes including current Labour offering). Vote for your best candidate locally I reckon.

Labour Party women have consistently told us for years that they have this all in hand and that Labour absolutely are on the side of women and won't be giving our rights away, that they've done backroom deals and have support among the party representatives, and then we read the manifesto and realise it was all gaslighting.

Of course we are annoyed.

How have we got to a point when the most feminist-leaning and most safeguarding-informed manifesto promises come from the Conservative Party. How the fuck has that happened?

Of course it's being talked about.

If Labour want women's votes, they need to clarify what they are offering women, not what the Conservatives have or haven't done.

Especially as I always prefer to vote For, rather than vote Against.

Be good actually if Keir Starmer agreed to do a MN webchat. Rishi Sunak's doing one so perhaps Keir might like to do the same.

On a more personal note. I always like to consider my vote on a local constituency level as well as national party level. I'm in a apparent marginal seat (usually safe Conservative but might go to Labour).

Despite being a marginal, so far only the Conservative candidate has put a leaflet through the door. None of the other parties have bothered.

That's obviously not going to be the deciding factor in my vote, but I do feel if a candidate wants votes they should at least send out a leaflet.

Very true.

Women's rights have never not been a "hot topic" for some of us, it seems a bit crass to be late to the party and complain about what's been done and is being done.