Page 6 | Trans people; why is it our responsibility?

WickedSerious · 24/06/2024 19:54

TWETMIRF · 24/06/2024 19:53

Why is their belief system decreed so important? Christians can't force me to capitalise he when talking about their god so why do I have to adhere to genderism?

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Ladyfeelz innit?

TWETMIRF · 24/06/2024 19:53

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 19:50

You are supposed to respect people’s preferred pronouns and gender identity. You can say trans or trans women/man or not make reference to their gender. You shouldn’t know someone is trans and purposefully misgender them which is the term for what is happening in the example.

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Why is their belief system decreed so important? Christians can't force me to capitalise he when talking about their god so why do I have to adhere to genderism?

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 19:51

ProtocolDroid · 24/06/2024 09:11

I still don’t understand why they can’t see the very simple facts here.

They tell us that men are a danger to trans identifying males in intimate spaces, so it’s about safety.

But cannot understand why TIMs, who are also men, are a danger to women in the same intimate spaces.

If some men are dangerous, but you can’t tell which ones in advance, why admit them with women, who are more vulnerable? Or are women just disposable props in this enterprise, a sort of necessary evil? 🤔

We are always the ones expected to sacrifice ourselves.
It's not that they can't see we have a legitimate concern. IMO, it's that they don't care.

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gardenmusic · 24/06/2024 19:51

So, this gender stuff.
Does one decide they are a woman, despite evidence to the contrary, and that's it, or does one waver between the two (? I'm not aware of any more sexes)
Would it be possible, say, to be 'Julie' all week, but Derek at the weekend in order to have a few pints with the lads?
Is it different to being a transvestite, where you fit it around your other commitments?
I haven't phrased that well, but I am aware that some men wander about a bit.

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 19:50

HootyMcBooby · 24/06/2024 19:32

You said telling a Transwomen (man) he is a man, would be illegal in the UK.

It's not.

My point stands.

You say you acknowledge biology. What is a transwoman? What is a woman?

How can I describe them without falling foul of your "laws"?

Edited

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You are supposed to respect people’s preferred pronouns and gender identity. You can say trans or trans women/man or not make reference to their gender. You shouldn’t know someone is trans and purposefully misgender them which is the term for what is happening in the example.

Meceme · 24/06/2024 19:50

I am a terf. I'm very happy to be a terf. It's practically impossible not to be a terf these days.

I am gender non-conforming. I don't give a shit what name anyone uses, what they wear, who they have sex with (assuming mutual attraction and consent), what job they do or life they live.
I would campaign to support anyone experiencing discrimination on these characteristics.

But when it comes to areas in which sex matters, biology triumphs over 'feels' every time.

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 19:49

Floisme · 24/06/2024 09:01

I assume op, that it's for the same reason so many posters insist we must vote Labour: because it's our job to make the world a better place for everyone else.

I do believe everyone has the responsibility to make the world a better place if at all possible, Flo. I just don't aggressively demand they do it.
As females we are not raised to have that feeling of entitlement, and I'm actually thankful for that. It turns people into assholes. I don't want to be an asshole.

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WickedSerious · 24/06/2024 19:47

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 19:08

Trans women’s rights to exist in spaces minding their own business, not committing crimes and using a restroom.
these rights seem not to be universally held in this chat - maybe it’s a culture thing I’m from the UK and we would consider that discrimination and illegal here

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That's all fine,as long as they're minding their own business in spaces that correspond to their biological sex.

Which is male.

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2024 19:47

Lopine · 24/06/2024 07:45

Yes, we are hardcore terfs for suggesting that men should take responsibility for their very poor behaviour towards a section of the community.

"hardcore terf" = anyone who isn't a fantasist or has a grasp of safeguarding

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 19:45

BloodyHellKenAgain · 24/06/2024 09:00

I'm not hardcore "terf" as I respect everyone's right to decide who and what they are.

Really OP? You think 'terfs' don't also respect 'everyone's right to decide who and what they are.' I know I certainly do, I just also support womens rights to single sex spaces, sports. It's the wanting single sex provision bit that apparently makes me a 'terf' 🙄

You're nitpicking. The emphasis is on hardcore. Yes, extreme terfs who refuse to accept that they have the right to be referred to as women if they like do exist.

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Fgfgfg · 24/06/2024 19:43

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 19:25

Universities in the UK are getting gender neutral toilets now as part of the Athena Swan awards - this may well be the way it’s going

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Not at my place they're not.
Aston University however...
https://www.aston.ac.uk/latest-news/aston-university-wins-athena-swan-gold-award-gender-equality

Aston University wins Athena Swan Gold award for gender equality

Aston University has been awarded the Athena Swan Gold award, recognising its commitment to gender equality.

https://www.aston.ac.uk/latest-news/aston-university-wins-athena-swan-gold-award-gender-equality

WickedSerious · 24/06/2024 19:42

gardenmusic · 24/06/2024 19:37

'This conversation seems a bit out of hand'
That is often what a man will say when a woman is making her point, because he is a man and thinks his point of view overrides the woman's.

They will indeed.

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 19:41

WandsOut · 24/06/2024 08:44

What is a hardcore Terf?

Is it the women who scream that they want privacy from men the loudest?

I always thought it means you refuse to accept it when trans call themselves women. I accept it. They can call themselves anything they like. I just don't want anyone with a penis and testosterone in women's rape crisis centers and domestic abuse shelters. I don't really care about toilets. People in toilets aren't in a particularly vulnerable position, but rape and DV victims are. I would accept them if they have had sex reassignment surgery and hormonal treatment. I had assumed a hardcore terf would not.

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Brefugee · 24/06/2024 19:41

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 18:57

I‘m afraid times they are a changing and we are moving further away from transphobia being acceptable more and more every day. It’s literally UK law not to discriminate against trans people already.

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please explain the transphobia here.

You have seen on this thread a woman explain how because men go into women's spaces, some women now self-exclude.

I hope you are happy that you are shutting already marginalised women out of their day-to-day lives and shrinking their world to their own four walls.

Slow fucking handclap

gardenmusic · 24/06/2024 19:41

So, I have worked out that I am a terf. Now I have to decide what sort of terf.
It's all very complicated!

BroadBeer · 24/06/2024 19:40

HootyMcBooby · 24/06/2024 17:05

Okay I'll play.
The answer is NO.

Why? Still a bloke.

And for the same reason that I wouldn't want an impotent man (can't use his penis), a gay man (wouldn't use his penis), a male penile cancer victim (has no penis) or the fucking Pope (not allowed to use his penis) in those spaces.

They are all still MEN.
Female facilities are for females, not men with penis amputations.

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Take. A. Bow!!!!

HootyMcBooby · 24/06/2024 19:39

Yes.

Stop discussing women's rights to safety, privacy and dignity you bunch of absolute bigots.

gardenmusic · 24/06/2024 19:37

'This conversation seems a bit out of hand'
That is often what a man will say when a woman is making her point, because he is a man and thinks his point of view overrides the woman's.

Fgfgfg · 24/06/2024 19:37

XChrome · 24/06/2024 02:16

Okay, so trans identifying folks say that they need access to women's spaces because they aren't safe in men's spaces. I get that, but it is a problem caused by men. Therefore the solution should be about men, not women. So why isn't the main focus on targeting these men, campaigning for harsher penalties for such hate crimes? Why instead are they expecting women to compensate them for male behavior, making ourselves feel less safe in the process?

I would love for a trans identifying person to answer that question.
Has anyone here ever asked a trans person this question and received an honest answer?

I'm not hardcore "terf" as I respect everyone's right to decide who and what they are. My problem with it is when it conflicts with other people's rights to safety and security. I would really like to them to tell us why the violent men who cause this problem are being let off the hook and women are the ones targeted with all this anti-terf hate.

I'm afraid you are a terf. Your point about the safety of women and girls makes you one. Welcome to the club.

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 19:34

Oblomov24 · 24/06/2024 08:40

Yawn. A tiny tiny issue, that affects a tiny % of the population, is then made by them, a huge issue, affecting us all, politicians, our own views on feminism. Why? Just why have we allowed it to get this big, and how on earth do we re-take the power back from them?

Good questions.

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Brefugee · 24/06/2024 19:34

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 18:29

This conversation seems a bit out of hand. I fear transphobic propaganda is the reason that some women here seem afraid of Trans women 🤔
most large spaces and companies are moving towards gender neutral toilets in addition or as a replacement to avoid all this.
please remember that if any person of any gender identity is a sex offender/violent criminal wanting to hurt victims they are very unlikely to care which toilet it they go to in order to commit horrible crimes. The feelings here should be about violence and sex offences not gender identity and symbols on a toilet door 🚻

no.
I am not afraid of transwomen. I am worried that men will take advantage of us being unable to say "you're a man, get out of the ladies" and frankly it is a bit thick of you not to understand this. You haven't been listening, have you?

Women (and men) deserve single sex spaces for reasons of privacy and dignity. My 83 year old mum doesn't want to be around men in hospital, even men who genuinely believe they are women much less the acronym brigade who get off on women like her being uncomfortable. etc etc.

stop conflating two issues.

Greaterorlesser · 24/06/2024 19:34

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 19:05

You want to take away trans women’s rights?

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Trans women’s rights are men’s rights. Nobody wants to take away the rights of any men even the sub set of men that are trans women.

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 19:32

IncompleteSenten · 24/06/2024 08:37

Because everything is always the fault of and responsibility of women. Men particularly believe this but a lot of women do too.

Sort everything out and always accommodate the wants of others, keeping your wants and needs at the bottom of the pile and above all else, Be Kind.

Exactly so.

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HootyMcBooby · 24/06/2024 19:32

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 19:23

Haha of course I’m not oblivious to physical biology. I am not denying that trans women don’t need smear tests! I don’t believe gender and sex are the same thing at all. Sex is biological fact and gender is something you align with which could be the same as your sex or not. I would be interested to know if people here believe that sex and gender are the same thing?

I am chatting in this thread as it’s interesting and I’ve never heard of some of these opinions before. OP invited discussion and while I do feel sex and gender are different and gender is how you feel and live and this seems not to be the same as everyone here

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You said telling a Transwomen (man) he is a man, would be illegal in the UK.

It's not.

My point stands.

You say you acknowledge biology. What is a transwoman? What is a woman?

How can I describe them without falling foul of your "laws"?

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 19:31

gardenmusic · 24/06/2024 08:35

I think I might be a terf. I had to look it up. Is it a bad thing?
I don't want to get banned, so what are we allowed to say?
I don't care if a man wants to wear a frock and call himself Julie, no skin off my nose, but there are places I do not want to see him.
If wearing a dress makes it uncomfortable for him to be in the men's spaces, that is his problem, surely? It does not mean he can come into ours.
Am I a terf?

You feel the same way I do. Apparently that makes us terfs in the eyes of trans extremists.

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