Page 4 | Trans people; why is it our responsibility?

XChrome · 2024-06-24T01:16:14+00:00

Okay, so trans identifying folks say that they need access to women's spaces because they aren't safe in men's spaces. I get that, but it is a problem caused by men. Therefore the solution should be about men, not women. So why isn't the main focus on targeting these men, campaigning for harsher penalties for such hate crimes? Why instead are they expecting women to compensate them for male behavior, making ourselves feel less safe in the process? I would love for a trans identifying person to answer that question. Has anyone here ever asked a trans person this question and received an honest answer? I'm not hardcore "terf" as I respect everyone's right to decide who and what they are. My problem with it is when it conflicts with other people's rights to safety and security. I would really like to them to tell us why the violent men who cause this problem are being let off the hook and women are the ones targeted with all this anti-terf hate.

TimGrantsNoAccessToWomen · 24/06/2024 21:25

XChrome · 24/06/2024 20:06

Neither do I, actually. I was just saying I'm more lenient about it than the most extreme of terfs. For example, I will accept it if a person born male wants to consider herself female and will refer to her as such. I would also accept those who have had sex reassignment surgery and hormones in women's spaces.

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Do you think Sarah Jane Baker should have been put in a women's prison?

TimGrantsNoAccessToWomen · 24/06/2024 21:22

Brefugee · 24/06/2024 19:58

have you understood what the poster is talking about? at all.

Do some reading, fgs

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I suspect this may be a bot.

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 21:21

TWETMIRF · 24/06/2024 21:16

A stonkingly small percentage of people identify as cis, stop misgendering the vast majority that don't.

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Really? I’m pretty sure that that cisgendered people form the vast majority of people. Trans and non-binary is relatively small in comparison surely.

TimGrantsNoAccessToWomen · 24/06/2024 21:20

XChrome · 24/06/2024 20:20

I don't care much about toilets. They are in public places where the risk is low. Toilet assaults are pretty rare. However, picture this. Suppose a man was seeking to get at and harm his wife who was in a domestic violence shelter. He could claim he's an abused woman to get in and kill her. Imagine a rapist claiming he's a woman to get into a rape crisis centre and access vulnerable women.
Would it happen often? Probably not. But it could.
Why should women accept that risk?
It isn't transphobia to be concerned about things like that.

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I encountered a transwoman masturbating in the ladies toilet when I was a teenager. There is a whole porn genre of men dressed as women exposing themselves and masturbating in womens toilets. It matters.

TWETMIRF · 24/06/2024 21:16

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:58

I wonder if statistically women and children are more prayed upon by cis-women/men in women’s spaces or trans women 🤔
I don’t know the statistics

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A stonkingly small percentage of people identify as cis, stop misgendering the vast majority that don't.

Meceme · 24/06/2024 21:14

Men make up 90-95% of sexual offenders and 90% of violent offenders. Women and children make up the majority of the victims. They are more likely to be the victims of trans women in womens spaces because cis-men (otherwise known as men) are unlikely to be present and women statistically are unlikely to offend at the same rate as men.
Trans women however offend at similar rates to men and are over represented in the population of sexual offenders in prison compared to cis-men. * *

WickedSerious · 24/06/2024 21:01

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:58

I wonder if statistically women and children are more prayed upon by cis-women/men in women’s spaces or trans women 🤔
I don’t know the statistics

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I'll bet you don't mate.

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:58

DeanElderberry · 24/06/2024 20:49

What about a man whose trans identity is specifically predatory? Thinking Barbie Kardashian among others.

'trans' and 'predator' are not always or even usually found together, but are not mutually exclusive.

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I wonder if statistically women and children are more prayed upon by cis-women/men in women’s spaces or trans women 🤔
I don’t know the statistics

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 20:50

I just wanted to thank everyone for participating in this thread. I didn't expect nearly so many posts. I wanted to be able to respond to everyone, but my typing fingers are getting sore. So please forgive me if I didn't get back to you.

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DeanElderberry · 24/06/2024 20:49

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:37

Fair point if you are worried about men in these spaces then this makes more sense to me as someone who isn’t worried about unisex toilets (as long as it’s cubicles only) I didn’t really get what people had an issue with.
technically the trans women are allowed in women’s spaces it isn’t deception in this case. Unless you mean a man pretending to be trans in order to be a predator then this is deception

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What about a man whose trans identity is specifically predatory? Thinking Barbie Kardashian among others.

'trans' and 'predator' are not always or even usually found together, but are not mutually exclusive.

DeanElderberry · 24/06/2024 20:45

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:32

Male staff are allowed in female toilets. There is usually a sign if this is the case but they are allowed to be there

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This man was quite specifically not allowed in female toilets and had been informed of that in writing (copied to his union rep) more than once.

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 20:38

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:09

Trans women don’t have more rights than trans men I think they are equal. Correct me if I’m wrong.

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I didn't say they did, just that transwomen are demanding more privileges in asking women to accommodate them in their spaces.

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PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:37

HootyMcBooby · 24/06/2024 20:32

No.
Because if it is clearly marked as UNISEX then I can have a reasonable expectation that there will probably be some men in there, and make an INFORMED choice to use that space.
Unlike when men use a women's space through deception.

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Fair point if you are worried about men in these spaces then this makes more sense to me as someone who isn’t worried about unisex toilets (as long as it’s cubicles only) I didn’t really get what people had an issue with.
technically the trans women are allowed in women’s spaces it isn’t deception in this case. Unless you mean a man pretending to be trans in order to be a predator then this is deception

DeanElderberry · 24/06/2024 20:35

A tiny percentage of men are pedophiles. A much larger percentage of men fetishise and predate on teenagers.

DeanElderberry · 24/06/2024 20:33

If it was in a public, well-lit area with fairly busy traffic I wouldn't be worried about assault. Experience has made me wary of male hygiene standards in shared facilities (for example loos on trains).

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 20:33

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 19:59

Well of course it’s a very small minority but something to consider. Remember females can be pedos too so this is an issue with any strangers getting naked around and seeing your LOs naked and it’s not unheard of for cameras to have been found in these places historically so if you want to be extra safe change in a cubicle with your LOs just in case.

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Very few women are pedophiles. There are ten male child molesters for every one female, according to a review of available research.

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PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:32

DeanElderberry · 24/06/2024 20:29

Toilet assaults are rare because men are not allowed in the women's facilities, though a colleague of mine had a near-miss with a nasty man on the janitorial staff years ago, rescued because a female cleaner, who knew him and didn't trust him, was on the lookout, and could eject him forcefully because he had no right to be there.

I addition, menstruating woman are entitled to not have strange men watching them while they cope with stuff. Particularly from strange men with Dylan Mulvaney type obsessions.

Male staff are allowed in female toilets. There is usually a sign if this is the case but they are allowed to be there

HootyMcBooby · 24/06/2024 20:32

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:31

Would you be worried about men in a unisex toilet facility?

No.
Because if it is clearly marked as UNISEX then I can have a reasonable expectation that there will probably be some men in there, and make an INFORMED choice to use that space.
Unlike when men use a women's space through deception.

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 20:31

Would you be worried about men in a unisex toilet facility?

DeanElderberry · 24/06/2024 20:29

Toilet assaults are rare because men are not allowed in the women's facilities, though a colleague of mine had a near-miss with a nasty man on the janitorial staff years ago, rescued because a female cleaner, who knew him and didn't trust him, was on the lookout, and could eject him forcefully because he had no right to be there.

I addition, menstruating woman are entitled to not have strange men watching them while they cope with stuff. Particularly from strange men with Dylan Mulvaney type obsessions.

Hoppinggreen · 24/06/2024 20:29

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 19:08

Trans women’s rights to exist in spaces minding their own business, not committing crimes and using a restroom.
these rights seem not to be universally held in this chat - maybe it’s a culture thing I’m from the UK and we would consider that discrimination and illegal here

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You don't sound like someone from The Uk with your use of words like Brit, Restroom and Folk.
Trans people do of course have a right to exist. Men do not hav ethe rightbto access women only spaces

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 20:26

Meceme · 24/06/2024 19:50

I am a terf. I'm very happy to be a terf. It's practically impossible not to be a terf these days.

I am gender non-conforming. I don't give a shit what name anyone uses, what they wear, who they have sex with (assuming mutual attraction and consent), what job they do or life they live.
I would campaign to support anyone experiencing discrimination on these characteristics.

But when it comes to areas in which sex matters, biology triumphs over 'feels' every time.

Well said. That's how I look at it.

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DuesToTheDirt · 24/06/2024 20:26

FriedGold · 24/06/2024 16:28

Male to female transsexuals quite often don’t have a penis. Interested in your views on people who have had surgery using women’s changing rooms? Would you mind?

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How are we supposed to know? Are we going to examine their genitals at the door? Or peer at transwomen who are getting changed, to see if we can spot a penis? Obviously if someone is flashing their dick, it's obvious they've got one, but otherwise? We can tell they are men, but we don't know about their genitals.

Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 20:23

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 18:59

Is discrimination against the trans community illegal in Canada? It seems like a progressive place that wouldn’t tolerate discrimination

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It is. How is that relevant to the question?

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Original poster

XChrome · 24/06/2024 20:20

PrincessCordelia · 24/06/2024 18:29

This conversation seems a bit out of hand. I fear transphobic propaganda is the reason that some women here seem afraid of Trans women 🤔
most large spaces and companies are moving towards gender neutral toilets in addition or as a replacement to avoid all this.
please remember that if any person of any gender identity is a sex offender/violent criminal wanting to hurt victims they are very unlikely to care which toilet it they go to in order to commit horrible crimes. The feelings here should be about violence and sex offences not gender identity and symbols on a toilet door 🚻

I don't care much about toilets. They are in public places where the risk is low. Toilet assaults are pretty rare. However, picture this. Suppose a man was seeking to get at and harm his wife who was in a domestic violence shelter. He could claim he's an abused woman to get in and kill her. Imagine a rapist claiming he's a woman to get into a rape crisis centre and access vulnerable women.
Would it happen often? Probably not. But it could.
Why should women accept that risk?
It isn't transphobia to be concerned about things like that.

OP posts: