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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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EasternStandard · 22/06/2024 10:14

crabbyoldbat · 22/06/2024 10:10

Labour have responded to the JKR article - this from the BBC's coverage:
We can now bring you the latest comments from the Labour Party, which begins by saying that it "is the party of women's equality, with a manifesto that puts women front and centre".
"Sex and gender are different, as Labour's Equality Act makes clear," the statement continues, "that's why we have consistently said that we will not introduce self ID and that we will protect single sex spaces for biological women".

BBC piece

This seems pretty clear to me, and is what has been said before. But it's not getting through and the question isn't going away , and I think that's because Starmer himself has not made a clear statement (although he has burbled through something similar) - he just needs to do that simple thing, as RedToothBrush and MrsOvertonsWindow said earlier.

Which spaces and how will men with GRCs be excluded?

18 months ago Dodds made a statement and still not answered

They’ve spent all that time ignoring women, that’s their bc strategy

Love that JKR has elevated this. She’s brilliant

And a former £1m donation in 2008 is no small change

crabbyoldbat · 22/06/2024 10:10

Labour have responded to the JKR article - this from the BBC's coverage:
We can now bring you the latest comments from the Labour Party, which begins by saying that it "is the party of women's equality, with a manifesto that puts women front and centre".
"Sex and gender are different, as Labour's Equality Act makes clear," the statement continues, "that's why we have consistently said that we will not introduce self ID and that we will protect single sex spaces for biological women".

BBC piece

This seems pretty clear to me, and is what has been said before. But it's not getting through and the question isn't going away , and I think that's because Starmer himself has not made a clear statement (although he has burbled through something similar) - he just needs to do that simple thing, as RedToothBrush and MrsOvertonsWindow said earlier.

General election live: Labour says it is party of women's equality after Rowling criticises gender stance

The Harry Potter author said she would "struggle to support" the party if Sir Keir Starmer maintained his current stance on gender recognition.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cjqq8kgz80yt

BloodyHellKenAgain · 22/06/2024 10:08

RedToothBrush · 22/06/2024 09:30

JKR just asked the question: why are Labour doing this. Why have Labour, deliberately in some cases, forced women out of the party for raising concerns over women's rights? Why have so many Labour MPs gone on record saying things that undermine women's rights?

We would like an answer. Before the election. Because we want to know who we are electing and what motivates them and why.

It's a relevant question

Excellent post @RedToothBrush I completely agree.

RedToothBrush · 22/06/2024 10:05

JKR: Here is what will win my vote. This is what I consider to be really important. Can you answer my questions.

What is the correct response to this, if you think she's powerful enough to stop Corbyn in 2017

Is it
a) give a shedload of abuse?
b) answer the fucking question?

Answers on a postcard to your local electoral office.

fromorbit · 22/06/2024 10:02

Great intervention by JKR at the right moment.

Right now there is maximum attention being paid. We can't stop Labour winning, but we can push them in a better direction.

Rosie, JKR were always right - you can pretend they only became right when Blair said something, but that is a lie.

The SNP are going to lose badly, because they pretended women did not exist.

Labour could be in their position in 2028 - because when they take power the Tories will put all the blame for gender madness on them. Being trapped into being responsible for criminals, medical experiments on kids and cheats is not a great move.

Lets say Labour follow through on their aim to target crime against women. Newsflash that means arresting a LOT more "trans" criminals especially as more and more criminals know that claiming enby or trans status is a great way to gain special treatment. How is that going to look? Even if they hide the stats the high profile cases will mount up.

There are going to be many more cases of medical malpractice.

Women will keep saying true things and people will go crazy.

JKR is only going to get MORE powerful because from 2026 onwards the most popular TV show on the planet is going to be Harry Potter.

Meanwhile as the populist right gets more powerful one of their biggest weapons is going to be the fact is "liberals" are lying about biology. It is a HUGE issue because it undermines everything else. If you lie about women existing you are going to lose people's trust over time.

tissueboxandcandles · 22/06/2024 09:56

I have nobody to vote for in my constituency. Women have been disenfranchised just as they were 100 years ago.

NoWordForFluffy · 22/06/2024 09:55

Wistfullythinking · 22/06/2024 09:29

I really think he should and if he has any sense, he will!

Given his (lack of) understanding on the subject, I'd think he'll have had somebody else read it for him and pass on what they think are the relevant points. Anyone who has had the career he has had and has such a shaky understanding of it has clearly paid it no direct attention themselves.

Dymaxion · 22/06/2024 09:55

Why is it that there is always something more important than the rights of 50% of the population?

And why is one person out of that 50% suddenly responsible for the rest not voting in enough numbers to allow JC to win an election ?

Waitwhat23 · 22/06/2024 09:52

Wistfullythinking · 22/06/2024 09:45

@JuneAgain I'm still voting Labour or for similar reasons, LD (probably, depending on the response) It's not like the women who won't wheesht will suddenly wheesht when Labour get in.

The book 'The Women Whom Wouldn't Wheesht' details exactly how difficult it to to extricate gender ideology when it is imbedded into civic life, how Scottish women have had to fight tooth and nail to get to where we are, and how there's still a long way to go.

I wouldn't be putting my trust in Labour suddenly deciding to listen to women if they get in.

Wistfullythinking · 22/06/2024 09:46

Wistfullythinking · 22/06/2024 09:42

I disagree. It's very readable, as you'd expect from the woman who wrote the books that got an entire generation of children into reading.

Ed to ad that I misread the quoted post, and I am just hopeful that Starmer will read it in full

Edited

My apologies @Summerwalksnow I misread your post

Dymaxion · 22/06/2024 09:45

Why is it that there is always something more important than the rights of 50% of the population?

And why is freedom of speech something they are not allowed unless they are agreeing with Men ?

Whatineed · 22/06/2024 09:45

borntobequiet · 22/06/2024 08:39

Labour lost in 2017 by a few thousand votes, given her cultist followers it's not inconceivable that her influence contributed to that loss.

”Cultist followers”. Dear God, listen to yourself.

Add to that the "Trumpian" insult. Because if we can't accept some of the policies of the left we absolutely must be far right sheeple.

Wistfullythinking · 22/06/2024 09:45

@JuneAgain I'm still voting Labour or for similar reasons, LD (probably, depending on the response) It's not like the women who won't wheesht will suddenly wheesht when Labour get in.

EasternStandard · 22/06/2024 09:43

Summerwalksnow · 22/06/2024 09:41

The entire article is quite a dossier of stupidities, it goes on and on.
Sir Keir won't read it, he will be given a half page summary prepared by an assistants assistant. It will be accompanied by a throwaway line such as " more ranting from the Harry Potter woman in Scotland but it is in the Times, so it might come up."

Of course he won’t, he can’t even talk about it

And when it’s all around him he’s so cloth eared and block headed he goes for ignoring it

Wistfullythinking · 22/06/2024 09:42

Summerwalksnow · 22/06/2024 09:41

The entire article is quite a dossier of stupidities, it goes on and on.
Sir Keir won't read it, he will be given a half page summary prepared by an assistants assistant. It will be accompanied by a throwaway line such as " more ranting from the Harry Potter woman in Scotland but it is in the Times, so it might come up."

I disagree. It's very readable, as you'd expect from the woman who wrote the books that got an entire generation of children into reading.

Ed to ad that I misread the quoted post, and I am just hopeful that Starmer will read it in full

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/06/2024 09:41

RedToothBrush · 22/06/2024 09:27

Not forgetting, all Starmer really has to say is 'not only do I agree with Tony, but I would like to apologise for the treatment of Rosie and say it is unacceptable behaviour by any labour member to act in this way. I believe in women's rights and it is crucial that the realities of being a woman are fully recognised and protected in law without exception. Safeguarding is important.'

But nope. It's mean old JKR's fault for not behaving in the approved way.

Give the fuck over.

We don't owe any party our vote. What with it being a democracy. We can voice our opinions at any time. There shouldnt be a 'wrong time' to voice concerns. Concerns should be dealt with whenever they arise no matter how inconvenient they are to you politically.

Cos Party First approaches are not in the public interest.

This.
Labour could have fixed it. It wasn't difficult as Red points out. Done a year or more ago and this would be old news.
Instead Starmer's been publicly forced into recognising basic facts and biology via Blair being wheeled out to tell him what the rest of us all know. Interviewers know this is a question that makes him look insincere as he derails the most straightforward of questions. Can't speak about the abuse of Rose D despite his claims to be championing tackling VAWG and shamefully has twice used the appalling murder of Brianna Ghey to avoid answering the question.

It's a self inflicted wound. Labour refused to listen to women, including all the loyal labour women members who they bullied, branded as transphobic and kicked many of them out of the party. And this is the consequence of their choices.

Summerwalksnow · 22/06/2024 09:41

The entire article is quite a dossier of stupidities, it goes on and on.
Sir Keir won't read it, he will be given a half page summary prepared by an assistants assistant. It will be accompanied by a throwaway line such as " more ranting from the Harry Potter woman in Scotland but it is in the Times, so it might come up."

JuneAgain · 22/06/2024 09:40

I shall buy the Times for the first time ever today.

It is expected to be a super tight race between LD and Con in my constituency, so if I vote LD, it is a vote for a Labour gvt. My LD candidate is a good chap but won't engage on women's rights. I have a PoW candidate but I know NOTHING about her, can't find anything online, no local presence. There is a local GC Indy, but she is bananas (I happen to know her). I have a postal vote. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. For the first time ever.

JKR reminds me what I am explicitly voting for if I hold my nose and vote LD.

Chersfrozenface · 22/06/2024 09:39

And how would Labour have dealt with Covid?

Health is devolved in Wales and the Labour Welsh government imposed more restrictions than were in force in England.

lcakethereforeIam · 22/06/2024 09:39

@Scruffily I'd just like to add that I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote, if anything you probably understated it. I actually liked Corbyn, he only burnt his bridges with me when he refused to call Hamas terrorists after Oct 7th. But we are, where we are and when life gives you lemons....

NoWordForFluffy · 22/06/2024 09:38

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/06/2024 07:48

Surely not? They are miles ahead in the polls.

I think the polls are narrowing, with still loads of 'don't knows'. I still think they'll win, but maybe not as emphatically as first believed.

RedToothBrush · 22/06/2024 09:37

Why is JKR responsible for the defeats and errors of the Labour Party?

Why aren't the Labour Party responsible for them? Why don't they take ownership of them?

The single biggest issue in UK politics isn't the cost of living. It's the lack of trust and accountability in politics.

That's why we are seeing huge swings in voting.

PotOfTulips · 22/06/2024 09:37

This article has given me the push to get on with writing to my prospective Labour MP (quite likely to win in my area) and ask him for his views specifically on some of these points. I also used a useful summary from the Sex Matters charity who have reviewed the 3 main parties' manifestos.

If Labour want my vote, they need to be able to articulate their approach better about biological sex versus "gender identity".

DrNickedMaCorpus · 22/06/2024 09:34

Waitwhat23 · 22/06/2024 09:33

It's always something

'Wheesht for Indy!!'

'Wheesht for Labour and we'll maybe address women's rights when we get in!! If we get the backbone and integrity to stand up against activists, of which we have yet shown 0 because we won't even support women in our own political party who are receiving rape and death threats'.

Oh yes, so very inspiring.

I think perhaps women have had enough of fucking wheeshting.

DrNickedMaCorpus · 22/06/2024 09:34

lcakethereforeIam · 22/06/2024 09:25

Well apparently JKR cost Labour the last election 🙄 perhaps Starmer might be worried enough that she'll pull it off again that he'll actually listen and do something!

We all just thought JKR was a sensible woman with a good turn of phrase, but it turns out she controls the UK government. Mazing.