Heellp my 14 year old daughter says she wants to socially transition

Is your DD's school part of an academy chain or run by the local authority. If it's the LA could you contact the councillor responsible for education?

Talk to your daughter. Truly understand what she meant and why. Then hopefully you have the answer and take it from there.

also remember if they truly are trans and that’s the worst case scenario for you would you loose your child over their pronouns and lifestyle? If not then just be a parent and give love 🧡

To be "truly trans" requires:
a) an unwavering belief in the idea that everyone has a gender identity
b) a significant enough level of distress, linked to this belief, that someone is willing to put their trust in doctors who also hold the same belief, where there is no proven empirical evidence base. It's essentially "faith based" consent, rather than informed consent.

Speaking as a non-believer, I would hope that no child or vulnerable young person finds themselves on a pathway where a belief in gender identity leads them to make decisions that are irreversible and bring huge risk to their endochrine system and overall physical health. It's heartbreaking that this is happening on a huge scale in the UK and other countries.

Yes, I would agree with you that "just being a parent and giving love" is all we can ultimately do as our children grow older and make decisions for themselves. But I can't imagine many parents would just rollover and accept their child falling in to this mess if they don't believe in gender identity themselves. Bringing the concept of "true trans" on to this thread is unhelpful unless you know you're speaking to a fellow believer.

I would caution your threat of legal action until you are confident it won't result in her moving out and you having little access. She is 14 so a court will listen to her or her dad is accepting her decision.

Going against the school if she sees them as accepting is also likely to go against you with her.

I think you need to approach this in the smaller steps suggested above

Yes someone to support the child’s issues surrounding DV and abuse ect. An
unhappy teen with unresolved issues might try out different identities if their friends are as the OP said even tho it’s not truly them at their core.

one thing I would suggest with teens is don’t go to battle stations against this unless you want to make it seem seriously cool and rebellious. A calm measured approach will allow true feelings to come to the surface.

also remember if they truly are trans and that’s the worst case scenario for you would you loose your child over their pronouns and lifestyle? If not then just be a parent and give love 🧡

One other thing I'd say is, don't let them chip away at your confidence. You clearly love your child; you love her more and know her better than any teacher at that school. You're her parent, you have parental responsibility, they cannot take that away.

There's a reason children aren't allowed to drive, drink, get tattoos, get married or make permanent decisions until they're adults. As I said before, the school won't just say 'oh you have an inner deep identity of 'not coming to school' and 'not needing gcses' well that's fine then, see you if you ever decide to pop in'. And yet, on gender they're letting children lead the decision making. I know plenty of children who deeply, deeply don't want to be in school and strongly, strongly believe that gcses are pointless. And not doing gcses is something you can do later and doesn't involve lifelong medication. It's literally insane that safeguarding is just abandoned when it comes to gender ideology and it's so logically inconsistent as to make any rational adult weep.

Some great advice from dougal

Unfortunately the school is the "bouncer on the night club door" when it comes to all of this i.e. they hold the cards on how the events will unfold and whether it remains collaborative or takes a different direction. Hopefully they have your daughter's best interests and safeguarding front and centre in how they choose to conduct themselves but unfortunately we've all seen some of the many examples where this isn't the case.

There are also examples where the school has seemed collaborative but has clearly been behaving very differently behind the scenes. If you search posts from rogdmum you'll see some examples of this 😬 One thing that's changed for the better since she was navigating this stuff is that there is more public awareness of the harms that are linked to it all. Obviously it's still not universal but I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for her when there was much greater public ignorance and (most likely, from the receipts she's shared) activism within the leadership.

I can't remember if I said it up-thread but my approach has always been to assume that I'll bump into a blocking person somewhere, even if I'm not directly liaising with them and even if they are coming from a (mis)placed sense of kindness and/or ignorance. So having my MP involved from relatively early on has been beneficial for both the school and me IME.

As far as counselling or CAMHS is concerned, I would take a very cautious approach and make sure that the pathway is clear of affirmation on an individual person basis. My own experience with CAMHS has been difficult but we're making good progress now.

Do you mean counsellor? A councillor is a democratically elected member of the council.

Although, if it comes to it, if the school abdicate their safeguarding responsibilities, involving your MP if they are sensible and understand reality, may be an option further down the line if needed. Very much depends on the MP as to whether they'll be at all useful. This is for a later stage though.

If you find a counsellor to support your daughter you need to make sure you find one who has also read the Cass review and is committed to adopting the approach laid out by Cass. I.e. not affirmation only, not ignoring other issues.

if they don’t have a councillor already to help with the abuse then now might certainly be the time.

it might be a teen rebellion or it might be them but for now look after your DC and make sure they feel enough and loved just as they are.

also do some personal research remember a mothers love should far outweigh any fear/distrust of trans people should it come to that. Use this as an opportunity to learn and grow with your child and let them know it’s interesting to explore gender but no decisions have to be made now

I would also reiterate if you can in any way reach out to the parents of the other girls who this has affected you may find some allies and can present a united front with the school.

Obviously go carefully as some of them might be full on TRAs but I bet some of them feel exactly as you do. Most normal people are not caught up in the insanity and just want to protect their children from harm.

I think the point that PPs have made about social transitioning setting children on a path (that it's very difficult to deviate from) to medical transition is an important one.

I would ask them firstly to confirm that the SLT and the leader of the LGBTQ+ club have all read the Cass report. I would probably then just simply state that socially transitioning your child appears to be going against the Cass recommendations, which causes you grave safeguarding concerns.

Given that you have these concerns, ask them to set out clearly the evidence base and qualifications they have which are causing them to disregard Cass, and to lay out in writing why their proposed course of action (if not in line with Cass) is, in their opinion, in your child's best interests.

I suspect asking for all of the above in writing will prompt a hasty reading of Cass and reverse ferret. If not, at that point I think obtaining advice about the legality of their action may be appropriate.

I think all of the first bit (before you get to the legal questions) can be done in a spirit of constructive discussion about what is in the best interests of your child, without it necessarily being adversarial - although you must be raging, because I would be. However, as @BonfireLady has demonstrated although you shouldn't have to modify your tone when it comes to your child's safety, and they're the paid professionals here so should bloody act like it and have a tiny grasp of what Cass is, in reality sometimes squashing that and being the (only) grown up in the room can be a better approach for your child. It's not fair though, so rage away on here.

The fact the teacher hasn't heard of Cass while dabbling in sex change for children (sorry for being blunt but that's what he's doing) is alarming.

Absolutely. He is uninformed and out of his depth. If you haven't already I think you need to get his superiors involved - both head of year and head teacher.

OP I'm in this situation with an adult child. The advice you've been given so far is good. I'd be wary of therapy as, if they're an affirming therapist, this could make it worse. Gender Exploratory Therapy Association and Thoughtful Therapists has been useful for us.

The school sounds completely toxic. Could you move her? Does she have hobbies or anything outside school that's non gender related she can focus on?

Talking to other parents through the Gender Dysphoria Support Network has helped to keep me sane. Bayswater Support is another parents group.

I'd give them a few days but use the time to decide how you want to handle this. Looking on the school's website is great - so there's the first issue for any complaint - they're already misrepresenting the law.
Copy the school's complaints procedure so you can see what you have to fo before launching a formal complaint.

Hopefully your email and links have got them backtracking.

It helps to be clear with schools precisely what do you want:

Do you want her out of the LGBT club?
Do you want a guarantee that nobody or a particular person? will discuss gender identity with her?
Do you want to make a formal complaint about the teacher's behaviour in the club? The lack of safeguarding? The club fostering social contagion? The school stepping way outside their professional boundaries?
Do you want them to refer her for mental health support?
Or something else?

That's a bit of a random list and you may have other issues to raise.

If one parent is for and one is against an intervention which has been described as 'not a neutral act' by an eminent paediatrician who published a wide-ranging, evidence-based review into the treatment of gender questioning children, and urged that social transition should not happen without medical input, then surely the precautionary approach is watchful waiting?

I cannot believe they would abandon safeguarding so far as to not be precautionary.

Are they essentially just, in this one area, doing what kids want? What if kids don't want to ever come to school? Are they going to accept that in the same way?

Did you note the number of girls who've all wanted to 'transition' at the same time, which suggests social contagion and / or grooming in the LGBTQ+ club. Did you ask if there was SLT oversight of what messages children have been getting in that club?

It sounds as if you're the resident parent, OP? If you are I do think they should give greater weight to your opinion as you will have a better understanding of your daughter's life and emotions than the non-resident parent.

It is appalling he is talking about socially transitioning children (against parental wishes) and hasn't read the Cass review. That is a huge failure in itself.

Following on from @BonfireLady 's excellent posts - I wonder if a question about the legal position if the school does not follow Cass might be the next level if they look inclined to ignore your concerns? You will be in a much stronger position as a result of the Cass review having been published. Any school going against Cass is ripe for legal action, I'd imagine. I doubt their lawyers would agree with the approach they're taking.

Also, if they have clusters of club attendees transitioning they really should be investigating what goes on in that club.

Thank you MarieDeGournay. The majority of my learning came from listening to the brilliant posters on this board. I spent a long time trying to get my head around the wider subject of gender identity, so that I could work out how to navigate conversations. I took part in all sorts of different online conversations to help with that.

@Pleasegotobed I'm glad it was helpful. One person who may be able to help you is your future MP, depending on their own views on this topic of course. Mine has been invaluable (as a lifelong Lib Dems voter, except when I once voted for Labour, I find myself in the curious position of hoping my Tory MP keeps his seat) and has been supportive of my wish to work collaboratively with the school to find a way forward. He has also been talking separately to the school. You may also get press interest (it can be done anonymously), being a parent who is caught in a position where you want to follow a Cass approach but your daughter's father wants to affirm. In parallel, keeping the school on track with the forthcoming KCSIE guidance is key, reminding them of its links to Cass.

I have no idea where this case got to but when I was in the early days of talking to the school, I made them aware of a group of parents who are challenging the legality of schools promoting genderist beliefs:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4867444-bad-law-project-to-sue-gov-over-sex-education
Even if this went nowhere, I have no doubt that there will be more of this kind of thing in the future, most likely directed at individual schools that continue to affirm, after the KCSIE guidance goes in place on 1st September.

I asked my daughters' school to speak to its lawyers about their own legal position regarding the promotion of gender identity belief, even with the current guidance (and I followed the question up as well via my MP). Worryingly, for schools, there is no clear legal position. Given that, I would think that most sensible schools would now start to exercise caution and follow the steer from Cass that social transition is not a neutral act.

It sounds like the person you're in contact with at the school is open to dialogue, which is a promising start. Personally, I have found a balance of collaboration, recognising that people hold different beliefs and.. strong nudging.. has worked well.

Yes you can stop it. The school can't undermine your parental responsibility - you have prime responsibility to safeguard your child. This is a really useful article to read and share with teachers:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/:

Of course your daughter's wellbeing is your priority and well done for being so constructive in sharing resources with them. Others like me who have extensive experience in schools and with safeguarding are aghast at the professional arrogance and dangerousness of teachers embarking on their crusades to transition other people's children. The fact the teacher hasn't heard of Cass while dabbling in sex change for children (sorry for being blunt but that's what he's doing) is alarming.

Have you sent him the link to the DfE draft guidelines? If not, then suggest you send him them.

Keep focusing on her need for therapeutic support for your DD. That's what she needs - not the school pretending she's a boy. You're not against support for her - you're against them socially transitioning her. Cass has raised great concerns about schools doing this. The link above from Transgender Trend is written by a clinical psychologist and it's very powerful.
Maybe you could share it with her father? The fact she refuses to discuss her feelings is testament to the fact that she needs support, not socially transitioning.

There's lots of wise women on here who can offer support and Safe Schoos Alliance and Transgender Trend are great sources of advice.

You're not alone.

BonfireLady - an inspiring post, your daughter is lucky to have your wisdom and knowledge as well as your love. I hope the OP finds it very useful.
to all of you who are fighting for your daughters' wellbeing

There's lots of good advice on here.

Hopefully the statutory KCSIE guidance that comes in from 1st September will help to focus the school on their safeguarding obligations. This guidance signposts schools to both the Cass Report and the Gender Questioning Children guidance and is the key document around which everything centres for schools.

Schools are in a really difficult position because they've been left without clear statutory guidance until this document was (pre)released. It's still not live yet, so remains at risk of change but hopefully not 🤞

Frustratingly, non of the other guidance is finalised, some is non-statutory, and there is no clarity on what will happen. However, if they start from the safeguarding principles of the forthcoming KCSIE guidance, the rest should fall in to place much more easily. I'm no expert on safeguarding (I'm just a parent who is trying to navigate this) but hopefully it should also be obvious to them that under their statutory safeguarding obligations, listening to the parent who is advocating for a Cass-aligned approach is much more appropriate.

OP, in terms of keeping the conversation open with your daughter, I took the "differential diagnosis" approach to working through my daughter's distress with her. She already had an autism diagnosis, but the same approach applies without it. If you've ever seen House with Hugh Laurie, this was the essence of how I did everything: I looked at the possible causes of her distress and started "treating" the most likely. As she is autistic, it was most likely that she didn't like her changing body, was reacting adversely to the change itself and had sensory issues (breast development and periods). She was also badly bullied because of how she reacts in social situations and told me she saw girls as "weak". She still wants to be really strong and has previously said that this was so that she could beat the bullies. In other words she was rejecting girlhood, which is a common theme regardless of the root cause. I'm not going to support her to do that but I can support her with some of the things she finds distressing about everything. I can also talk positively about fitness and strength using good female role models e.g. the Lionesses and Olympic athletes (she really loves playing and watching sport).

Using sports bras and getting her on the progesterone only pill have been a huge help. She did briefly use tape for her breasts (she still really hates them, but thankfully got fed up with the tape and accepted that it was very expensive compared to sports bras) but reluctantly accepted my terms that it had to be sports tape, not trans tape. I really didn't want her to tape her breasts at all and explained to her that my reluctance was because it represented moving away from being a girl - when she originally asked me, neither of us had heard of sports tape and she had found a trans tape product that she wanted me to buy for her. Keeping the status quo while she works through her distress has been my line the whole time e.g. when she was thinking about changing her pronouns I said she couldn't change anything until she had been on a journey of understanding herself better. Luckily we had access to an open-minded paediatrician who supported my approach to treat her distress as autism-related first. It was this paediatrician who helped us talk through the breast-taping issue when we reached an impasse on it. We covered the topic fully, including the physical risk side, with the help of his mediation. He was the one who suggested the sports type idea.
She's got short hair and uses a neutral sounding (nick)name at school. Many girls and women have short hair and neutral sounding nicknames. We did originally try and adopt her nickname at home but she eventually told us that we may as well go back to using the short version of her name (which sounds like a girls' name) because it was probably easiest. The interim Cass Report was out when all of this was going on and I did explain to her that it was an NHS report that made it clear that "social transition is not a neutral act" i.e. the NHS is recommending that we don't do it because it can lead to a fixed destination. She did accept this, albeit reluctantly, because we were still addressing the things that upset her most about her body.
In parallel we've been working on her mental health, partly through CAMHS and partly by ourselves. We've been focusing on getting her out and about, by gradually stretching the boundaries that result from her intense anxiety. At the height of her mental health crisis, she didn't leave the house and pretty much lived under a duvet for several months 😔

It's been and remains a really difficult conversation and I haven't always got it right. It's been so important bringing in other adults to support her, so that she's not just hearing it from me. Having the school onside has been a key part of this - securing this hasn't been easy and it's not always been obvious that it has been moving in the right direction. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to counter the information that your daughter's dad will be giving her but hopefully there is a way to keep her grounded and you can find people who can support you and your daughter 🤞🤞 💐

A lot of good advice on this thread.

I would definitely be using the - it’s so close to the end of term I don’t think it’s appropriate in view of the Cass Review and Dept of Education guidance. For this very short period watchful waiting seems a far more appropriate course of action. Happy to discuss in September.

I'm sorry for what you, and your daughter are going through, OP. There's lots of good advice from knowledgeable and wise posters here, and I have nothing useful to add. But I feel for your daughter, I really do - I remember being so unhappy at that age, because I couldn't cope with being a girl, who was going to grow up to be a woman. It felt wrong and unliveable.

If 'transitioning' had been around when I was 14, I'd have leapt at it, and if somebody had offered me puberty blockers before I got my first period, I'd have bitten their arm off to get them.

Which is evidence of just how damaging the current climate is - I got over that crisis, time passed and time healed, I grew into being a woman, but a different kind of woman, gender non-conforming and gay. Nobody suggested to me that I must be in the wrong body, or that I was really a boy not a girl. It's such a toxic environment for young women like your daughter.

I know that 14-year-olds are strongly influenced by their peers, and whatever the 'in' thing is - being trans, in this case. But some 14-year-olds want to do their own thing, and stand out from the crowd - the school trans crowd in this case.

Today, the radical, rebellious thing to be as a 14-year-old girl is... a radical, rebellions 14-year-old girl.

Sending strength and courage to you both