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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pride: Some women no longer feel safe at what’s meant to be a celebration of all things LGBT

66 replies

IwantToRetire · 19/06/2024 19:34

Last year, Oxfam was forced to apologise after posting an animation for Pride Month featuring a character who many said resembled JK Rowling, depicted with red eyes and wearing a badge bearing the word “Terf” – an acronym of “trans-exclusionary radical feminist” used as a slur against feminists deemed transphobic.

Such disputes may on the surface appear minor, but there are worries among those who were there in the early days of the Pride marches that they are a sign of a more dangerous malaise. They warn that transgender activism has sown bitter divisions within the LGBT community and is now threatening to derail the movement they helped to build.

the clash between lesbian and trans rights has become so pronounced that one group of women has felt compelled to set up a grassroots campaign called “Get the L Out”, to protest at Pride events.

In recent years its members have attended parades in cities across the UK, carrying banners bearing slogans such as “Lesbians don’t like penises” and “Transgenderism erases lesbians”.

Liane Timmermann, a member of “Get the L Out”, says: “Pride was previously a political movement for lesbians and gays and then it was totally hijacked by this gender-identity movement
.
“Trans activists have got higher up on the Pride board and it’s just become shocking.

“Lesbians who are same-sex attracted are not welcome at Pride now.”
Timmermann adds that, initially, Pride organisers were uncertain how to handle the group.

Members of the lesbian rights group were gently asked to leave one London Pride event, she says, but were ultimately allowed to stay because it would cause more disruption to forcibly eject them.

Pride in London, which did not respond to questions from The Telegraph, said at the time, in 2018: “They demanded to march behind the rainbow flag, which marks the official start of our parade. We did not allow that as we did not want to legitimise them or their message.”

However, as time has gone on attitudes have hardened. In 2022, police stepped in to remove the campaigners from Cardiff Pride after they were judged to be stoking a “confrontation” with transgender attendees.

And this schism within the LGBT community over trans ideology is set to widen. On June 29, the day of London’s annual Pride march, Jenny Watson, a 32-year-old lesbian activist, will hold an alternative rally in the capital, because she believes that the main event no longer represents women like her.

Similar to the members of “Get the L Out”, she feels that it has become dominated by the transgender movement and a growing number of men in “hypersexualised” outfits.

“Pride used to be simple and fun,” says Watson, who went to her first march at 18.

“But it’s just turned into this sexualised circus with men in bondage gear or wearing ball gags and lots of women just don’t feel comfortable to be there.

Just a few paragraphs from a much longer article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/17/pride-trans-activists-lgbt-debate-divided/

So strange to find lesbians being given a voice in the Telegraph that Guardian would never allow!

Can also be read at https://archive.ph/o7XEg

How trans fanatics tore Pride apart

Some women no longer feel safe at what’s meant to be a celebration of all things LGBT – and the tensions could undermine the whole movement

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/17/pride-trans-activists-lgbt-debate-divided

OP posts:
WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 21:48

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 21:21

Why take kids to pride?

Because I grew up with so much homophobia that coming out was difficult, and I’m hopeful that they live in a world where they can be themselves. I want them to appreciate that, and know that it wasn’t always so, and I want them to celebrate diversity. HTH.

porridgecake · 29/06/2024 21:46

Runor · 19/06/2024 20:32

Trans rights activism is like a dementor, it sucks the joy out of everything it touches

Vanessa Feltz and Natasha Devon wouldn't agree with you. They were absolutely gushing today on LBC over the way that Pride has become much more about the trans movement and how wonderful it is and how they cannot understand the hate etc. I guess neither of them will ever have to worry about refuges or prisons. No concern for the experimentation on autistic or vulnerable children. I normally like listening to LBC when I am doing my cleaning but I had to switch it off because I just felt despairing. Standing up for the rights of vulnerable women and children is not hate.

TheCadoganArms · 29/06/2024 21:22

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 18:02

Lesbian here, I was at Pride this morning. Sorry to disappoint, but it was very family friendly, safe and respectful. Not a man in fetish gear to be seen.
The Torygraph probably isn’t the best source of objective news.

I was at Pride from lunchtime onwards. Walked from trafalgar square up to soho. For the most part I agree with you, it was sunny, a good festival vibe, all good natured, most people just chilling ane having a few drinks. Ended up on Dean Street where there was a small sound stage. But from my perch from about 3pm onwards I started to see the more risqué elements, BDSM dog masks, dildos being waved about, oiled up gyrating muscle men in leathers, blokes in nipple tassles and at one stage a man in slightly creepy 'Victorian' baby outfit. Kink and fetishes were slowly emerging and this was in full view of the many children still present. It was not family friendly and I don't work for the Telegraph.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 21:21

Why take kids to pride?

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 21:17

Circumferences · 29/06/2024 21:09

Lol at "family friendly"
Pride parade in Brighton is a notorious drink and drug fest.
You wouldn't take your children down to hang out with a load of blokes on ketamine and speed or whatever else...
It's virtually nothing to do with "pride" these days. Unless you're proud of being a sex narcissist.

My dc were with me at Pride today and saw nothing inappropriate in the slightest. Not sure how you can comment if you haven’t actually been 🤷‍♀️

Circumferences · 29/06/2024 21:09

Lol at "family friendly"
Pride parade in Brighton is a notorious drink and drug fest.
You wouldn't take your children down to hang out with a load of blokes on ketamine and speed or whatever else...
It's virtually nothing to do with "pride" these days. Unless you're proud of being a sex narcissist.

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 20:57

IdealHomeExhibition · 29/06/2024 20:06

Family friendly

I wasn’t in London, I was at a different Pride.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 20:45

I’ve just seen photos of the furries and some person with a plant pot for a head (traiffid fancier?).

IdealHomeExhibition · 29/06/2024 20:06

PeppercornMill · 29/06/2024 19:17

The Guardian has pictures from the day:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2024/jun/29/pride-in-london-in-pictures

Can see the usual assortment of men in bondage and "pup play".

Family friendly

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 20:03

I suspect the pups will be out later this evening.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 29/06/2024 19:02

I was in London today, and caught the end of the parade. I didn’t see anything fetish-like to make it family unfriendly, but thought the Labour, LibDem and union presence was unnecessarily hitching some election campaigning onto the Pride celebration. Also, the language some of them were using was definitely family unfriendly - with chants of F*ck the Tory’s’ clearly audible from ASLEF and the Labour Party parade members. But on the whole just saw a bunch of people enjoying themselves in the afternoon sunshine.

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 29/06/2024 18:53

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 18:02

Lesbian here, I was at Pride this morning. Sorry to disappoint, but it was very family friendly, safe and respectful. Not a man in fetish gear to be seen.
The Torygraph probably isn’t the best source of objective news.

That’s brilliant - honestly.

OP posts:
AthenaBasil · 29/06/2024 18:24

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 18:02

Lesbian here, I was at Pride this morning. Sorry to disappoint, but it was very family friendly, safe and respectful. Not a man in fetish gear to be seen.
The Torygraph probably isn’t the best source of objective news.

That’s good to hear but there have been numerous pride events where there have been men in fetish gear.

SunnieShine · 29/06/2024 18:11

EdithStourton · 29/06/2024 18:00

Our small local town laid on a pride day and a gay friend rolled his eyes and said to me, 'Oh God, Pride next weekend, isn't it?' He won't touch it with a barge pole.

That's how I feel. I wouldn't touch Pride with the end of your barge pole, it's a total embarrassment.

WaitingForMojo · 29/06/2024 18:02

Lesbian here, I was at Pride this morning. Sorry to disappoint, but it was very family friendly, safe and respectful. Not a man in fetish gear to be seen.
The Torygraph probably isn’t the best source of objective news.

EdithStourton · 29/06/2024 18:00

INeedAPensieve · 20/06/2024 11:17

My lesbian friends no longer go. It's mainly men in fetish gear. Drag as well, although that wasn't as bad, just a bit over the top. The fetish stuff freaked them out. They have young children now and it's entirely inappropriate to see what they've seen at previous marches. Her and her wife made the decision few years ago to stop going (actually prior to them having their kids) when one of the fetish gear blokes in a gimp mask was openly masturbating on the street and none of the gay men around him batted an eye. They felt horrified and left. I was so angry at the time when my friend told me about it. The police were there! They did nothing. It's gross.

Our small local town laid on a pride day and a gay friend rolled his eyes and said to me, 'Oh God, Pride next weekend, isn't it?' He won't touch it with a barge pole.

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 29/06/2024 17:55

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 17:49

There’s a gay man pride today (not sure where it is). To get away from all the straight folk and cranks. I saw a video from Cardiff’s pride and it was a hell of a lot of doggies, white faced nun types and bondage folks.

Not sure where the gay male one was but there was also a small lesbian only one in Westminster. Which was lovely.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 17:50

Oh and flags all along Piccadilly and regent street. Yeah. Marginalised.

Name5 · 29/06/2024 17:49

My DC (ftm but slowly giving it up, no surgery thank God or drugs) has been to one pride event in eight years.
She said not for her, full of weird people.
She hates the way people jump on her as she's at a posh uni and want her to be a spokesperson. Not for her and she thinks there's too many predatory people in the ranks.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 17:49

There’s a gay man pride today (not sure where it is). To get away from all the straight folk and cranks. I saw a video from Cardiff’s pride and it was a hell of a lot of doggies, white faced nun types and bondage folks.

PeppercornMill · 29/06/2024 17:28

I didn't know until I saw a minor article on a website that it was Pride London today, they are now really trying to downplay it.

Noticed that a lot of brands aren't doing special Pride ranges this year, obviously find that they sold poorly.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 29/06/2024 17:23

Well had to go into central London and ran into the rainbow crowd.

Mixed sex couples, groups of corporate sponsored t-shirted colleagues (big banks and finance companies, law firms etc), gangs of giggling teen girls on a jolly, moms and their special little kid (dressed up to the nines in sparkly frocks - saw a couple of these and to be honest the lads didn't look all that happy), and many many good little allies in their ally T-shirt's. Also quite a few older women in sparkly clothes and hats. And a very large chubby bloke in a string vest which was rather unnecessary.

It's Halloween for straights. I hear a straight woman is leading some march - she says doesn't like sex very much, and apparently that makes her very special indeed.

I don't know any gay people who are going.

It's really not 'Pride' anymore. It was a protest (yes I'm that old. Yes I was on the scene from late 80s) - it's just a piss up now.

And flags - everywhere flags. Rainbows on streets, staff uniforms, cupcakes and lollipops. Roads blocked off. Crossings blocked.

Go and have a blast by all means, but don't pretend you are marginalised and discriminated.

Abeona · 23/06/2024 22:07

0Oo · 23/06/2024 17:43

Stop harking for a past that wasn't there. It is sad that your posts lie about history.

Early pride marches were political and demanded rights for all minorities from lesbians, gay men, and trans people.

e.g There was
STAR : Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries. "STAR was a radical political collective that also provided housing and support to homeless LGBT youth and sex workers in Lower Manhattan.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetTransvestite_Action_Revolutionaries

Personally, Pride doesn't appeal to me either, but then again I am too old for it. I'll take a quiet cup of tea and biscuits thanks.

Edited

Fred Sargeant was one of the main leaders of the Stonewall Riots and is very clear about the role of trans people in the riots:

They did virtually nothing at Stonewall or to help create the gay liberation movement. If they couldn't grift, they didn't do anything worthwhile. Establishing a cell in GLF called S.T.A.R. whose only tangible result was a eight-month squat in a rundown apartment on 2nd Street without utilities for drug-addicted sex-workers, isn't the accomplishment that some make it out to be today. The owner of the building was in the mob, fer chrissakes.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/fred-sargeant-debunks-the-latest

Fred Sargeant debunks the latest Stonewall revisionism from Pink News

Fred Sargeant participated in each of the nights of the 1969 Stonewall riots and was one of the four co-founders of the first Gay Pride march in New York City in 1970. Someone tagged me into a post recently about a Pink News article regarding Mark Sega...

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/fred-sargeant-debunks-the-latest