Did Keir Starmer just say

Kier changes his position daily depending who he is speaking too. Many of his front benchers are much more consistent in their TWAW proclamations.

Has Kier condemned the abuse of Rosie Duffield yet?

This.

They need to be put in the with the menz where they belong.

Exactly. There needs to be a penalty for advertising something as a single sex, when it isn't.

@lcakethereforeIam

Institutions are failing on necessary/useful sex segregation because they fear social or legal consequences. Having the government say it's OK is the essential first step.

Captured institutions will be more vulnerable to subversion from within, and under more competitive pressure from alternative sex realist offerings. I won't go to M&S if Next has trans exclusive changing rooms.

Does he really think that a policy which means anyone can just say they're trans and get a private room to themselves won't have labour catastrophically 'losing control of hospital wards'?

Good grief. I knew he'd inflame it. Because he doesn't know what he's talking about.

So alongside men who want to get on women's wards, you're now going to get a whole bunch of people determined to get a private room, or accuse the NHS of rank transphobia, 'because Keir Starmer said we could'!!

Utterly clueless. Can't wait to see him 'sort this entire thing out on day one'.

Well done to Nick Ferrari - a lot of broadcasters wouldn't have asked such a clear, specific question.

TBH NF has been asking these clear questions about trans/women's safe spaces, on air, since 2022. But since the bien pensant don't listen to LBC, he's been immune to cancellation or screams of twansphobia (also because if anyone tried to cancel him he'd just ignore it, which is, of course, the only sure defence against cancellation).

Nothing wrong with feeling heartened - I am too! It doesn't win back my trust or my respect or my goodwill, let alone my vote, but they're going to win regardless and any shift is a positive.

Edited to add: That said, I'm also following the thread on Woman's Hour and that sounds thoroughly depressing.

Thing is Keir blokes are already in women's toilets, changing rooms, wards, sports, awards, short lists...the RSPB ffs advertises 'women only walks' that they explicitly state anyone can identify into. It's happening now with or without a GRC. What's to stop this dismal situation continuing. Sure men can be excluded, but they aren't. If obtaining a GRC is made easier, more men will feel emboldened to violate women's spaces. I can't see M&S suddenly telling them no.

I'll be accused of being naive, but I'm heartened by this. Yes, it only scratched the surface. But time was limited and implementation will be a complex matter. KS is saying quite clearly that men with GRCs will not be forced to bunk in with the other men, but won't be in with the women either. This is a big shift for Labour and TRAs will be furious (it will be good if gc msm showcase their response because it will highlight how mad they are).

Thanks for the transcribing as I've not been able to listen. This does sound significant.

Well done to Nick Ferrari - a lot of broadcasters wouldn't have asked such a clear, specific question.

Who wouldn't prefer their own side room to a cramped ward with 6-8 beds? On what other basis would those needing (or merely wanting) single rooms deserve priority?

Seems to me that it's heads the Gender Ideologues win, tails they win.

Harumphh. Side rooms should be allocated on the basis of clinical need. You know for people with infections, at risk of infections, or people at the end of life.

Are trans people going to be given priority?

Slightly off topic but two thoughts from me:

1. I love NF's tone whenever he's interviewing some idiot who claims that sex is just a feeling and TWAW - polite incredulity mixed with slight caution - the sort of tone one would use when accidentally confronted by a delusional lunatic
2. Whyyyy does KS always revert back to his time as chief prosecutor whenever he gets a question on social issues which he finds awkward to answer, or cannot/will not give a straight answer to? Like yes Kier we know you were chief prosecutor. Yes we know that makes you a Very Clever Boy. Now answer the damn question!

Given his repeated pandering to the trans lobby and grim bumbling answers I do think that this is significant. Isn't it the first time he's ever said the NO word to transactivists? A man with a GRC can't be on a women's ward.

Presumably the polls are telling labour that his "women's rights and child safeguarding is just a culture war to men like me" comments have gone down like a lead ballon. Otherwise he's be still dismissing it and moaning about us toxic women.

Now to get him onto safeguarding children and Cass.

I think he's saying someone else will have to figure out how to accommodate them, so they are treated as women, but the women's spaces are 'safe'. And tying himself in knots.

@Chersfrozenface @OldCrone @AstonUniversityDataScrapingDepartment @TWETMIRF thanks for clarification. Sorry I got that wrong. (Will try harder).

@ResisterRex Venturing an answer to your question re source of info on NHS 'So if Starmer truly believes that this isn't happening then why? Who's telling him this? And who's telling him that staff aren't identifying as women, as that didn't feature in his reply either?' I understand his wife works in the NHS.

Shame he wasn't asked to define a woman before starting the discussion.

I suspect a lot of politicians - here in Ireland as well as in the UK - wish they could turn the clock back to before this surrealistic word-play became de rigueur. It's wearing thin, and they sound as if they can't even convince themselves that it's practicable or right. Listening to them tying themselves in knots would be funny in a cruel sort of way, if it wasn't so serious for women.

Side wards are very few and like gold dust for very sick patients, dying patients, etc are they going to clutter them up with people who are not women who want to be on a woman's ward or men who are not men who want to be on a men's ward? I don't see that happening in practice. And they would usually still have to use the ward facilities, bathrooms and toilets.

Sounds as if he doesn't actually know WHAT'S going on
Or he's deliberately giving that impression?
It's still all a bit vague. I'm sure he wishes that all this would just go away. But it won't.

Yes. That's pretty clear, I want to hear more of that! He's saying a GRC does not change sex for all purposes. We want that very, very clear.

Starmer: 'I passionately think we should protect single spaces for women and girls - that's something I've been clear about for a very long time, Emma. I was Chief Prosecutor between 2008 and and 2013 running the prosecutions in E&W. We had a LOT of cases involving for example, violence against women and girls, and I know first hand from my experience then, just how important safe spaces are.

And so, that is very important to us. In relation to the proposal we've got in our manifesto, in relation to gender, that is the process that we will put in place, but it doesn't cut across um safe spaces. They're very very important, and we will protect them.

Caller: 'Yeah, I don't know how the two can marry up - because single sex spaces are under threat now, we've got boys and men in women's sports at grass roots level, we've got single sex spaces being turned into mixed sex spaces, that's happening right now, and your'e going to make it easier for people to change - well you can't change sex, human beings can't change sex - '

Starmer - 'yeah'

Caller: ' - a gender recognition certificate you know, doesn't change reality, so it's not, the two policies don't match'.

Starmer: 'Well, Emma, they do, because I think you can always say, and should say, safe spaces for women um girls, whether that's in sports, the work I did particularly in support, refuges, those who've been subjected to violence, physical or sexual, or indeed in our hospitals, it's actually NHS policy for wards to be single sex, the onely reason it isn't routinely the case now is because this government have lost control of our hospitals, and we want to rei

Ferrari: 'So if I was identifying as a woman and I went to an NHS hospital, would I be allowed to be on a women's ward?'

Starmer: 'No. It's a single sex ward, that is the NHS policy'

Ferrari: '... if I had a gender recognition certificate, would I be allowed to be on a women's ward?'

Starmer: 'You would be accommodated, but not on a women's ward'

Sorry, got to dash out, there follows some conversation about wards and side rooms. May be a couple of errors as I'm in a hurry ...

It is progress if he's been able to say single sex without falling off his chair. And biting the bullet about having a GRC not allowing a man access to a women's hospital ward is massive - there'll be much moaning and wailing about that one 😃

It sounded very stumbling and uncertain to me. He was asked directly about single sex spaces, but his initial phrasing was to say single [pause] spaces without any qualifier, then he moved on to talking about safe spaces instead of single sex spaces.

It was only later, and specifically in regard to hospitals, that he did actually start referring to single sex spaces. So my understanding is that he's ok with hospitals having single sex wards (and believes that's what's happening already) that are not overridden by a GRC, but sports/shelters/etc are still accessible for anyone with an identity.