WOMAN'S HOUR TODAY!

I'd say beware voting for Reform as a protest, people did that for Brexit, not suspecting that Leave would win.

It's not what the Tories will do for women but what rights they won't take from us.

Which, if you'd read my post and previous other posters, you'd understand.

We can't protect women's spaces if our right to create single-sex spaces has been taken from us.

A woman's ability to leave an abuser is largely dependent on the State enacting laws that permit divorce, allow the courts to grant non-molestation orders, and allow feminist charities to operate single-sex shelters.

^^
It's that right to operate single-sex anything that a Labour govt threatens.

I'm sorely tempted to vote ADF as a protest vote in my safe Labour seat.

I disagree profoundly with them on immigration but I agree strongly with their policies to protect our fisheries and marine ecosystem, increase child benefit, limit lorry driver working hours, replenish the social housing stock, and prevent overseas buyers from hoovering up properties as "investments" (read, to rent out and take the profits overseas).

Why this faith in what the Conservatives will do for women, @EvenMyWashingMachineCommittedSuicide? It's not as if they've demonstrated any will or commitment in that direction over the last 14 years. What do you imagine is going to change now? After all, their manifesto involves benefit cuts which by their nature will hurt women more than men.

Yes, as I said in another thread, you only have to see what Labour controlled councils do

Labour want to enact self-id, same as SNP. If you think Labour won't make funding of women's services conditional upon them being trans male-inclusive like the SNP have done, you're deluded.

Until recently, Stonewall were fighting to get the single-sex exemptions taken out of the Equality Act. They'll restart that campaign under a Labour govt and then we won't even be able to fund our own single-sex services.

That's the SNP not Labour, @EvenMyWashingMachineCommittedSuicide .

Read my post rebutting this.

Labour might chuck a handful of change they found down the back of the sofa at women's refuge services, but their idea of "woman" will include men. We've seen this already in Scotland from the SNP.

ETA: Oops, I already replied to that post. Long day.

ETAA: No I didn't, that was MalagaNights I replied to earlier. Long day...

For all you know, the entirety of those who didn't vote were in favour of Brexit but just couldn't be bothered either.

Often, people vote to make a change, not to keep things the same. Low electoral turnout usually means that the electorate are not unhappy with the incumbents. I was startled by the number of people I talked to who didn't seem to understand that they needed to go out and vote Remain if they wanted things to stay the same.

Normally yes, but I'm likely to need to contact her about a casework issue later in the year, and I don't want to make that more difficult.

Indeed. But they will blame the thicko working classes and the bitch TERFS.

I believe a lot of immigrants left the Uk after Brexit not primarily due to hostility towards them (though I’m sure there was some hostility) but because of the weakening of the pound so earnings in the UK were not so lucrative as before and also because the living standards and wages of some countries had such as Poland had increased over the decade since they joined the EU. I for one believe we do need controlled immigration to fill skill shortages and for the exchange of ideas/cultures which adds to our national life. Unlimited immigration is bad for both those already here and for migrants. I have seen evidence of illegal migrants mainly young men sleeping in bushes and hedges in our town (I volunteer picking up litter in public places) whilst working as Deliveroo couriers and on building sites. They are probably indebted to a trafficking gang so also very vulnerable to violence.

Agree 100%. Thank you for sharing your experience.

The way that the chattering political classes are willing to harm vulnerable women for the sake of a political ideology is horrifying.

Douglas Murray has I think been very good on highlighting the question of why the hell we're allowing people to remain in this country (often in receipt of state benefits) who've been convicted of heinous crimes in their home countries. Who then unsurprisingly go on to harm people in this country.

People’s personal and professional experience on these issues is also quickly dismissed. Both sides of my family are immigrants from two and three generations back, so I am pro managed and beneficial immigration. However, I frequently work with extremely vulnerable women fleeing domestic violence. The amount of male perpetrators who are here seeking asylum/refuge is massively disproportionate. Their safety is valued above women’s as they are allowed to remain in the country due to them being in danger in their country or origin, despite them committing heinous crimes against, often, multiple women who should be safe here. Many of them are also known offenders in their country of origin. It has been a clear trend for several years now but if I point this out, backed by actual statistics as a reason that immigration needs better management, people get very quiet and uncomfortable.

I suppose you could argue that the weakening of the pound against the euro / other currencies since Brexit has made the option of economic migrants coming to the uk and working hard and living frugally for a few years and then having enough money to go home set up for life a lot less feasible. So actually UK tradesmen voting Brexit for this reason may have achieved their goal....

Yes. We seem to be at a point in politics where those on the left don't want to engage with meaningful debate about such issues though.

If you're in any way for any limits on immigration you're a right wing racist and bigot. End of story.

It's not good for society.

The other issue I'm concerned about is young male immigrants claiming to be younger than they are and ending up in schools with their views that women and girls are inferior. The complaints of several schoolgirls who've claimed sexual harassment by immigrants like this have been brushed under the carpet. I suppose it's clear that young girls lives don't matter in our society (Rotherham etc) but it's disheartening we can't even talk about it.

I know members of my circle who voted for Brexit some were tradesmen including Sikh builders who were being undercut by recent immigrants for the same jobs to the point they just couldn’t compete with them on prices.

For a lot of immigrants especially those from the former communist countries with lower living standards, working in the UK and living frugally for a few years meant much more money which they could save and it would set them up in their own countries. The UK tradesmen couldn’t do that, their lives are in the UK and they have now where else to go which would have given them a higher wage.

@dougalfromthemagicroundabout , you can think what you like. You don't have to agree with me. I genuinely do not believe that the majority of the electorate wanted Brexit to happen, but the majority of those who voted did.
Hence my post.

@Ramblingnamechanger , the Labour candidate is the only one who I would vote for. I've given it a fair amount of thought, and I'll be voting for the person who I feel will best represent the community. There are several candidates

Back to 'What is a woman?', I generally live my life as a person, but a situation I can see the woman with a penis being an issue is the 'women-only' sessions at the public swimming pool.
How would it be OK for a 'person who identifies as a woman but has a penis' to be in the swimming pool and changing room with women and young children. Many of the (born as) women go to these sessions because there are no men there.
I'm really not comfortable with it at all - it seems like a man's right to identify as a woman is more important than a woman's right to have her privacy or religious belief.

For all you know, the entirety of those who didn't vote were in favour of Brexit but just couldn't be bothered either.

How on earth can you come to the conclusion it was just voter apathy that resulted in Brexit? Unbelievable. You're just going to clearly think what you want to think, but I think you're wrong.

Brexit was quite like the sex and gender debate, except a mild version (less punching of women involved) in that I know quite a lot of people who voted for Brexit but would not tell anyone they didn't trust absolutely, including a pollster, that fact. Because so many people would knee jerk brand them a 'racist' for doing so. Even though some of them are black so probably know what racism looks like better than all those saying blithely that those voting for Brexit were racist.

Edited to add: I voted Remain but I did listen to the reasons of people I knew who voted for Brexit. They had good reasons, evidence-based reasons. I didn't agree with them, and I came to a different conclusion, but they did have well thought through positions and simply prioritised different things than I did. None of them are racist. Some of them are immigrants.

Probably means their end goal if they got into power would be to follow the US's rollback on abortion rights. Frightening.

I really don't know who to vote for either. Green's policies overall are the ones I like most but their stance on women and how they've treated their own members and candidates over this.

@dougalfromthemagicroundabout
the beginning of a realisation that there are many in the middle / upper classes who actually think working class people are not entitled to democracy. Not really, because they're stupid and don't know what's best for them.
I've not forgotten the immoderate rant that a friend's DH launched into, with minimal provocation, about self employed builders, plumbers etc who, amongst other perceived sins, 'voted for Brexit'.

The level of contempt for tradesmen really shocked me. It was just a shocking way to speak of fellow-humans and I've never looked at him the same way since.

Edited to add, I really hoped the Brexit vote would wake the political class up to the level of disengagement and dissatisfaction amongst a whole swathe of the electorate. It didn't. Did they go and talk to people in Clacton about why they were so pissed off? Not as far as I know. Who is now standing in Clacton with a fair chance of making a decent showing? Nigel Farage. Am I surprised? Not in the slightest.

So you think it is a good plan to vote for Labour despite their complete rejection of women and our rights? I don’t really see any radical policies which will improve the lives of women.

@dougalfromthemagicroundabout , Wow. Not because of the people who cared enough to think Brexit was a good idea?

I don't understand why you felt the need to post 'Wow'.

The people who did vote voted Yes or No, or spoilt their vote, as was their right. I can't criticise their choice because we live in a democracy.

The people who didn't vote made up 27.8 of the electorate. A proportion of those were probably complacent and thought 'Leave won't happen, it doesn't matter if I vote'. Had they voted the result would have been different.

(I can criticise the people who believed the lies peddled by the Leave brigade)

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