Labour Manifesto

It's says

We will also modernise, simplify,
and reform the intrusive and
outdated gender recognition
law to a new process. We will
remove indignities for trans people
who deserve recognition and
acceptance

It lacks any detail and is vague enough to still include ditching the spousal exit clause.

GD is a challenging diagnosis to make. You cannot do a simple diagnostic definitive test. Its a matter of professional judgement.

Just as ASD is a challenging diagnosis to make for similar reasons. My Ex had to have a full day assessment with two specialist doctors who had to both agree for him to get a diagnosis. And that is for a diagnosis that affects no-one but him.

If Labour want to go down this path, then something similar is needed. Conditions that are hard to make a call on do need to have more than one specialist doctor involved and both to agree, especially when that diagnosis affects people other than the individual.

But really what is needed, is not a process looking just at GD yay or nay, but a proper holistic process to find out what the causes of the feelings of gender confusion are and how those can be addressed - much like the Cass report recommended.

Exactly. It's back to relying on court cases and crowdfunders to secure rights.

I think what they mean here is women can continue to ask for them but they won't lift a finger to do anything for us.

They'll just watch from the sidelines as women exhaust time, money, resources and our mental health being forced to go through arduous tribunals and other legal processes to have access to single sex spaces that are supposedly ours in the first place.

When challenged about this they'll waffle something about respecting everyone's rights.

I've not seen anything yet about the Spousal Exit Clause - have I missed it?

I'm sure Labour think 16/17 yr olds will vote for them then continue to do so.

Careful what you wish for as Germany recently found out. In the 16 -24 year range 16% voted AfD which is up 11 points from 5 years ago when the youth vote favoured the Greens. This was the first election 16 and 17 yr olds could vote.

I think they'd really like to be able to give cross-sex hormones from much earlier (which in many ways could be medically less dangerous than prolonged puberty blockade). I asked my trans friends what conversion therapy is, and they said it's telling the kid they're not trans. 🤔

ETA the 'they' is TRAs, not the Labour Party. Mad as a box of frogs.

I've been wondering exactly the same. I think it speaks to the lack of joined-up thinking on this issue within Labour that nobody even seems to have considered this. Just slogans that sound good even when one contradicts another.

Cross post @Whatthechicken I agree

GRC process to require a "specialist" doctor" , so not just a GP. That is I suppose marginally less terrible than I anticipated. But still seems open to gender GP style diagnoses for cash.

Yes. They will need to pin down what they mean by specialist very tightly to prevent abuse (they wont)

They have also committed to Implementing the Cass findings in full but also to introduce a trans inclusive conversion therapy ban, which is a hell of a circle they will need to square (and shows a lack of joined up thinking)

Thanks for this. I wonder isn't there a massive conflict with the introducing a trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban and 'We will work to implement the expert recommendations of the Cass Review to ensure that young people presenting to the NHS with gender dysphoria are receiving appropriate and high-quality care.'

I thought PB were out for under 18s, and if the trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban, bans talking therapies - then what appropriate healthcare is left for under 18s?

Then she's recycled her own question? Asked it 44 minutes ago at the Labour event.

Argh. Not POST manifesto.

Added to say the Rigby quote is from last night's debate. It's not lost manifesto. I remember her asking it.

Thanks op, I will read and digest before I comment, other than that I do not support giving the vote to children as I think that's far too big a responsibility.

She didn't nail it at all. She has t seen the manifesto then. And what she said about the tories' nonsense is biased rubbish.

And thanks too to Arabella for all of these manifesto threads and summaries. So helpful💐

Nothing about women's rights

A bit surprised (how are journalists chosen/invited for this I wonder? ) and disappointed by that🙄

Have started listening. Thanks so much for the pointer

Bringing down the voting age is just a no cost headline grabber.

I hope they've thought about the implications, though. If 16 is old enough to vote, should anyone force them to be at school, should they be allowed to marry, drink?

By allowing 'switched on' 16 year ds to vote, it may lead to issues for other children.

Thanks for posting relevant info from the Conservative manifesto too👏

Both Tory and Labour manifestos have policies aimed at women that I like. Are they… fighting over us?

I could get used to women being seen as key target voters [/me preens]

They need to get all this gender ideology bullshit out of schools. I dont think gender identity even exists.

Like you're getting kids who genuinely believe they are cats. How is someone who thinks they are a cat gonna function in society. It's mad.

Yes let's reduce the age of marriage again then

I think when you start putting things that directly affect 18yos in your manifesto (national service, for example, from the Conservative manifesto), giving 16 and 17yos the vote is completely reasonable. They are the ones who might actually have to do it, after all.

It is not just an issue of whether 16-17 year olds are switched on and engaged. At that age, when the brain is neurologically still years away from being fully matured, all humans are more prone to black and white thinking, dividing the world into ‘goodies’ and ‘baddies’.
That is a huge political problem as it is, without adding to it with even younger voters.