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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour Manifesto

181 replies

AstonUniRank · 13/06/2024 11:44

FWR relevant bits:

'Tackling violence against women and girls

For too long, violence against women and girls has been ignored. Our landmark mission to halve violence against women and girls in a decade will require a national effort. We will use every government tool available to target perpetrators and address the root causes of abuse and violence.
That starts with tougher enforcement and protection. With Labour, there will be specialist rape and sexual offences teams in every police force. The most prolific and harmful perpetrators will be relentlessly targeted, using tactics normally reserved for terrorists and organised crime.
Prosecution rates for rape are shamefully low with many victims dropping out of the justice system when faced with years of delays. Labour will fast-track rape cases, with specialist courts at every Crown Court location in England and Wales.
Victims deserve better support. Building on the success of the approach adopted by Labour Police and Crime Commissioners, we will introduce domestic abuse experts in 999 control rooms so that victims can talk directly to a specialist, and ensure there is a legal advocate in every police force area to advise victims from the moment of report to trial.
Violence and abuse against women and girls does not come from nowhere. Misogyny is one root cause, and therefore Labour will ensure schools address misogyny and teach young people about healthy relationships and consent. We will ensure police forces have the powers they need to track and tackle the problem.
Stalking has not been treated with the seriousness it deserves. Labour will strengthen the use of Stalking Protection Orders and give women the right to know the identity of online stalkers. Spiking is a devastating crime for victims, leaving many women feeling vulnerable when they go out. Labour will introduce a new criminal offence for spiking to help police better respond to this crime.
We will strengthen the rights and protections available to women in co-habiting couples, as well as for whistleblowers in the workplace, including on sexual harassment.'

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CassieMaddox · 13/06/2024 13:48

Child SEN and mental health:

Too often our education and care systems do not meet the needs of all children, including those with Special Educational Needs and Disabilities (SEND). Labour will take a community-wide approach, improving inclusivity and expertise in mainstream schools, as well as ensuring special schools cater to those with the most complex needs. We will make sure admissions decisions account for the needs of communities and require all schools to co-operate with their local authority on school admissions, SEND inclusion, and place planning.

Too many children’s life chances are being scarred by rising poverty. Too many arrive at school not ready to learn, and too many are absent. Breakfast clubs improve behaviour, attendance, and learning. Labour will fund free breakfast clubs in every primary school, accessible to all children. Our breakfast clubs will support parents through the cost-of-living crisis. We will also bring down the cost of school by limiting the number of branded items of uniform and PE kit that schools can require.

Poor mental health is another barrier to learning. The struggle to access support is paralysing children and young people through their formative years. Labour will provide access to specialist mental health professionals in every school, so every young person has access to early support to address problems before they escalate. This will complement our plan for Young Futures Hubs, which will make sure every community has an open-access hub for children and young people with drop-in mental health support.

CassieMaddox · 13/06/2024 13:46

A few other relevant bits from the section on children/education:

As an initial step, Labour will open an additional 3,000 nurseries through upgrading space in primary schools, to deliver the extension of government funded hours families are entitled to.
Supporting children in the early part of their life also means giving parents the flexibility they need to care for their children. Labour will review the parental leave system, so it best supports working families, within our first year in government.

Every child should have a loving, secure home. Labour will work with local government to support children in care, including through kinship, foster care, and adoption, as well as strengthening regulation of the children’s social care sector.

Sadly, too often we see families falling through the cracks of public services. Labour will improve data sharing across services, with a single unique identifier, to better support children and families.

3DayStockpiler · 13/06/2024 13:46

Cityenergy · 13/06/2024 13:15

GD is a challenging diagnosis to make. You cannot do a simple diagnostic definitive test. Its a matter of professional judgement.

Just as ASD is a challenging diagnosis to make for similar reasons. My Ex had to have a full day assessment with two specialist doctors who had to both agree for him to get a diagnosis. And that is for a diagnosis that affects no-one but him.

If Labour want to go down this path, then something similar is needed. Conditions that are hard to make a call on do need to have more than one specialist doctor involved and both to agree, especially when that diagnosis affects people other than the individual.

But really what is needed, is not a process looking just at GD yay or nay, but a proper holistic process to find out what the causes of the feelings of gender confusion are and how those can be addressed - much like the Cass report recommended.

Yet if they don't carefully define conversation therapy, what it is and what it is not, any approach other than you are what you say you are is likely risk litigation.

TinselAngel · 13/06/2024 13:44

Nothing about the Spousal Exit Clause then.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/06/2024 13:42

That's my ballot being spoiled then.

I'd have voted Labour just to get rid of the current waste of space MP I have, but was waiting to see how stupid Starmer would be on this - given his wilful avoidance of the subject for years & ill thought out answers to any Qs asked. It's just insulting that they think this in any way touches on actually fixing any of the problems Labour created via GRA & EA2010.

My stance won't make any difference but my conscience will be clear.

duc748 · 13/06/2024 13:42

This leads to situations like those Spanish soldiers who are getting extra benefits cos they've elected to be known as women now. Why encourage this lunacy?

CassieMaddox · 13/06/2024 13:42

Sausagenbacon · 13/06/2024 13:18

isn't there a massive conflict with the introducing a trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban and 'We will work to implement the expert recommendations of the Cass Review to ensure that young people presenting to the NHS with gender dysphoria are receiving appropriate and high-quality care.'
Surely the two a irreconcilable?

There is only a problem if treatment for comorbid conditions, and psychological and talking therapies are included in "conversion therapy".

I can see why people are concerned due to hysterical TRA statements, but I think its an overinflated concern. Conversion therapy seeks to "erase, repress or change" someone's gender. Its not about treating comorbid conditions or offering talking therapies to explore the implications. The Labour manifesto says exploration is expressly protected.

I think its right all "conversion therapy" is banned because some of it is barbaric and if the ban was too specific then practitioners of it would be more easily able to find legal "loopholes" to carry on with it.

Skyellaskerry · 13/06/2024 13:40

illinivich · 13/06/2024 12:12

Does anyone know when recording 'gender' for gender pay stats, whether trans women are included within women?

Its where it all gets confusing. Starmer will say that sex and gender are different, then talk about gender pay gaps.

Is pay really dependent on a sense of inner identity or presentation?

I agree, it’s ridiculous. Workplaces pick this up and then start talking about the gender of employees in this context.

Hedgeoffressian · 13/06/2024 13:40

Have they mentioned anything about increasing investment in our armed forces giving the increasing threat of another world war? That’s far more important to me than all the other stuff they have mentioned.

AIstolemylunch · 13/06/2024 13:38

Ah I see they've jumped on the latest DEI (menopause) thing that doesn't actually need to made into 'a thing' - must have run out of things to virtue signal about.

Hedgeoffressian · 13/06/2024 13:38

hellointernet12 · 13/06/2024 12:32

They need to get all this gender ideology bullshit out of schools. I dont think gender identity even exists.

Like you're getting kids who genuinely believe they are cats. How is someone who thinks they are a cat gonna function in society. It's mad.

The conservatives have pledged to ban the teaching of gender ideology in schools in their manifesto. No such promises from Labour I see. But they have banned conversation therapy, which to me reads that affirmation will be the only accepted approach towards kids left confused by gender ideology teaching at school and on ticktoc etc.

thirdfiddle · 13/06/2024 13:37

It's not lack of understanding, it's deliberate obfuscation. They're trying to say enough to make each side of a bitter conflict think they're on our side, and not so much as to actually pick a side.

Cowards. I don't trust them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/06/2024 13:33

I think they're ignoring the whole issue so much they don't understand the contradiction.

Chersfrozenface · 13/06/2024 13:31

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/06/2024 13:24

They are, but I don't think they grasp that yet.

Don't grasp it, or are wilfully ignoring it?

duc748 · 13/06/2024 13:31

There are no realistic 'indignities' at present. If the LP believes, or says it believes, that there are, it has a problem. I don't trust them. I certainly don't trust them to chuck the considerable sums of money it would require at the justice system, for a start, to achieve all they are promising. I'd like to see something about sex education in schools.

PronounssheRa · 13/06/2024 13:30

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/06/2024 13:24

They are, but I don't think they grasp that yet.

Despite dozens and dozens of people flagging this with anneliese dodds every time she tweets about a conversion ban.

x.com/AnnelieseDodds/status/1800833479523066301

Cityenergy · 13/06/2024 13:27

Underthinker · 13/06/2024 13:17

@Cityenergy That assumes the goal is to get an accurate diagnosis.

Well quite. But if that is what they are presenting, then I think in any consultation we need to make the case for getting an accurate diagnosis.

illinivich · 13/06/2024 13:26

Cityenergy · 13/06/2024 13:15

GD is a challenging diagnosis to make. You cannot do a simple diagnostic definitive test. Its a matter of professional judgement.

Just as ASD is a challenging diagnosis to make for similar reasons. My Ex had to have a full day assessment with two specialist doctors who had to both agree for him to get a diagnosis. And that is for a diagnosis that affects no-one but him.

If Labour want to go down this path, then something similar is needed. Conditions that are hard to make a call on do need to have more than one specialist doctor involved and both to agree, especially when that diagnosis affects people other than the individual.

But really what is needed, is not a process looking just at GD yay or nay, but a proper holistic process to find out what the causes of the feelings of gender confusion are and how those can be addressed - much like the Cass report recommended.

I wonder if the same diagnosis is made before surgery?

Do surgeons just take a single GD diagnosis from one professional as proof that a double mastectomy or removal of testicle surgeries can be performed on the NHS?

If that is the case, would that protect the NHS from misdiagnosis and treatment compensation?

If its a higher bar for surgery, i wonder what the rationale is, given the impact on women.

Chersfrozenface · 13/06/2024 13:26

"We will remove indignities for trans people who deserve recognition and
acceptance"

Indignities such as having it pointed out that this is a women's toilet or changing room.

Accept transwomen in your spaces, women. By order.

Cityenergy · 13/06/2024 13:25

I thought PB were out for under 18s, and if the trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban, bans talking therapies - then what appropriate healthcare is left for under 18s?

they will argue that they have not banned it, but in reality therapists will be too scared to go there - everyone knows how aggressive gender ideologists are in attempting to destroy the livelihood of anyone who disagrees with - so the only 'therapists' left will be the identity affirming ones. And Labour will absolve themselves of this outcome by arguing they never actually banned it, even though it was blatantly obvious that would be the effect.

If anything, we need laws protecting therapists exploring the causes of feeling of gender confusion, not laws that in reality will constrain them further.

Floisme · 13/06/2024 13:24

PronounssheRa · 13/06/2024 13:15

It's says

We will also modernise, simplify,
and reform the intrusive and
outdated gender recognition
law to a new process. We will
remove indignities for trans people
who deserve recognition and
acceptance

It lacks any detail and is vague enough to still include ditching the spousal exit clause.

Thank you. So much for 'Let me be clear' then.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/06/2024 13:24

They are, but I don't think they grasp that yet.

Sausagenbacon · 13/06/2024 13:18

isn't there a massive conflict with the introducing a trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban and 'We will work to implement the expert recommendations of the Cass Review to ensure that young people presenting to the NHS with gender dysphoria are receiving appropriate and high-quality care.'
Surely the two a irreconcilable?

Underthinker · 13/06/2024 13:17

@Cityenergy That assumes the goal is to get an accurate diagnosis.

Beowulfa · 13/06/2024 13:16

So I still have nobody to vote for then.