Operation let them speak is working

Apologies, ignore post above - I had failed to see the download pdf bit.

I saw the DM article yesterday and was going to post the link to the article and the report but ....

Have to say I failed to find any mention of the issue, despite searching.

So if somebody could be kind enough to let me know which section and which page as I had not luck whatsoever!

Thanks.

https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/high-court-no-basis-for-amending-birth-or-marriage-certificates-to-reflect-new-identities-under-witness-security-programme#:~:text=The%20High%20Court%20has%20determined,to%20reflect%20their%20new%20identities.

The judge opined that insofar as the plaintiffs asserted that birth certificates are documents “core to their identity”, they were making birth certificates into something which they are not. “A birth certificate is a historical record, not an identity document, albeit that it is clear from the case law that having an accurate record is fundamental to one’s identity and, therefore, personhood,” he said.

This was posted on another thread recently. A case in Ireland regarding a family in the witness protection scheme who had been given assurances by the Gardai that along with new identities they would receive amended birth certificates. It turns out this is a big no no. So in the case where a family's lives were at considerable risk there was no exception made.

The hypocrisy that on a whim another type of person can change their birth cerificate just by obtaining a GRC. What is it about this ideology that all sense goes out the window?

It has long surprised me that no mother has ever challenged this.
I get that mothers don't tend to want to fall out with their children, and most want them to be happy or may be aware how mentally vulnerable they are. But I simply couldn't allow this to go unchallenged. It would wipe out MY lived experience. I know I gave birth to two daughters. Every time I changed a nappy I could be sure they were girls not boys. To change their birth certificate changes my life as a mother.
I would absolutely challenge it in court.
I'd also deposit the originals with a solicitor or in the bank where they could not be accessed.
I might make use of them at some point in the future if sufficiently provoked.

Yes, why can't we change our place of birth? Just think how that would make life easier for a whole host of people.

What about date of birth? Again, what a difference that could make in all sorts of areas.

It should never have been that case that a Birth Certificate which is a factual record could be changed.

People can falsify bits of paper all they want, but every cell has a person's DNA which contains the truth.

I wonder how many deaths will occur in the future as a result of a person's GP or hospital not conducting tests because they aren't aware of the patient's real sex. Not to mention the costs of unneeded tests/scans etc. and taking up room on gynaecology waiting lists for unexplained pelvic pain when it's really prostate cancer because people are too ignorant about biology and really believe that their balls turn into ovaries because they're on hormone therapy 🤦🏻‍♀️

Quite, @FlirtsWithRhinos

"the incoming administration may therefore be faced with an ongoing tension between an increasingly open and accepting society on the one hand and an apparent resistance to the advancement of transgender rights on the other."

Soooo close to getting it!

If an increasingly open and accepting society is resistant to a specific social movement, what might we reasonably conclude about that movement?

They'll use one of the devolved nations as a cutout

The support for this is so strange, can we change other certificates? Who a child's parent is?.. oh wait they want that too..
My degree certificate? I've always felt it should be a law degree or maybe medicine?. Wheres the need for divorce if we just change the marriage cert and say it didn't happen?

I've always been utterly flabbergasted that you can change your birth certificate to say you were BORN the sex you clearly and observably were not. It's one thing to change your gender as an adult and get a gender recognition certificate, quite another to change formal identity documents such as your birth certificate and passport, which is literally formalising a lie.

I see wordclouds ...

The Scotgov does an immense number of consultations, most of which are just time wasting tick box exercises.

Because saying out loud "the right to force everyone to pretend" would be too revealing

Do they bother to define what rights it is trans ppl don’t have compared to the rest of us?

or is it the usual ‘everyone is a big meanie for not thinking self id is great and refusing to deny reality’?

I'm so sick of opposition to men in women's single sex spaces, medical experimentation on children and compelled speech being labelled as 'illiberal'. FFS.

You're right, they should at least point out in this dishonest framing that it's an increasing resistance to "trans rights", or the sentence doesn't make much sense, because surely on their terms it isn't "an increasingly open and accepting society" then?

@CrossPurposes Not yet read this No 41 report but looking at that quote. I feel that the word 'resistance' suggest that people have not moved their position (perhaps not wanting to change). This report appears to show that people are very much wanting to change and not simply staying stuck (though ignorance/apathy/etc). Slight but significant suggested changes in bold.

"the incoming administration may therefore be faced with an ongoing tension between an increasingly open and accepting society on the one hand and an apparent escalating, accelerated and evidence-based resistance to the advancement of transgender rights on the other."

Wow @Ereshkigalangcleg well spotted. I asked my DH about this
lot and he says that 'they are very thorough researchers and work hard to get proper samples'.

There was a thread on here about the BSA 40: A liberalisation in attitudes? by these guys which also mentioned that public support was waning. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4998034-responses-to-nancy-kelly-really-staring-to-show-the-cracks-in-support-of-gender-ideology-tactis?reply=132681557

Natcen - formerly headed up by Nancy Kelley.

Here's a link to a page with a link to the original report. I'll let more expressive women have a go at "the incoming administration may therefore be faced with an ongoing tension between an increasingly open and accepting society on the one hand and an apparent resistance to the advancement of transgender rights on the other."

https://natcen.ac.uk/publications/bsa-41-five-years-unprecedented-challenges

Its so frustrating that the question of 'what is a woman' has not been asked of any of the leaders in the debates or otherwise.

The new birth certificate is the reason why the spousal exit clause exits - it erased the persons old identity.

''Just 24 per cent of people now agree that trans people should be allowed to change their sex 'if they want' – compared to support levels of 58 per cent in 2016.
The results have emerged as part of the British Social Attitudes report, carried out annually by the National Centre for Social Research.''

Thats a heck of a drop.

In my home state in Australia, not only can you legally falsify your birth certificate from the age of 16 (and parents can for their children under 16), but you can change it once every 12 months….

Good. A combination of the Isla Brysons of this world, the terrible detransitioner cases, the abhorrent drag queen story hour, the batshit demands that ordinary people must start using ridiculous pronouns for no benefit other than making certain people feel comfortable, the unjust treatment of women who objected, etc etc etc is working.