Operation let them speak is working

I love this suggestion 😀

They could have pink or blue ones with glitter or dinosaurs on to be extra gendery

When I was little, I sent away some cereal packet tops (remember doing that?) and got a badge indicating that I was a member of the Biggles Air Police. GRCs should be like that: have one if you wish, but it doesn't change anything important, like your birth certificate or marriage status.

It doesn’t surprise me that someone would dismiss a lot of what’s happening as it’s too far out to be believable.

I assumed, for a long time, that the medical side of this must be okay as I assumed the NHS would only use medical procedures that were evidence based and where benefits and harms had been carefully weighed.

Before Isla Bryson opened everyone’s eyes, claims on Twix that there were intact male rapists in women’s prisons was dismissed as being impossible as nobody who is normal could easily believe in charge would do anything so stupid. I also found it unbelievable when I first heard it.

So much of this stuff is unbelievable and there are so many ways in which the authorities have been captured that it still beggars belief. Being able to just change the sex on your driving license and passport without any intervention or proof is almost more shocking than the birth certificate, which does at least require some input from professionals before it’s allowed.

Or you keep the GRC (even expand it) but basically it has no basis legally when it comes to access to female prisons, spaces anywhere really. its an acknowledgement of the inner truth of that person but since we don't base laws around inner truths sex is what matters. The only issue there is the changes in documentation (birth certificates etc) that the GRC currently triggers.

It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. The protagonists escape, but then find out that the aliens are everywhere. 😱

Agree. Depressingly.

Trouble is, surely, getting rid of the GRA seems an impossible dream and a million miles away. For one thing, it's not just a UK thing, this lunacy is in other countries too, and hence all this stuff about accepting GRCs from other countries. It would mean falling out with (and leaving) the ECHR, wouldn't it? I wouldn't say it's impossible (nothing is), but it'd take a bold, confident, radical government to crack on with it. I look at Keir Starmer, and I think, no chance.

When reviewing the Hansard record and other published consultations from the time it was always about the "right" to falsify records and ignore the very problems we see today.

When you look back the records are very damning. They lied about an Act that enshrined a lie, shouldn't be surprised really.

I think the stuff about marriage and equality was one of the many falsehoods woven into this issue by the activists.

Others on the FWR board have done a deeper-dive than I, and the GRA was being discussed at the same time the other things were, so it was never truly about that.

When reviewing the Hansard record and other published consultations from the time it was always about the "right" to falsify records and ignore the very problems we see today.

It is the re-writing of everyone's history not just the person who has the GRC, which is unacceptable.

I did read somewhere that the point of the GRC was defining the relationship of the holder of one with the State so for the ability to marry someone of the same sex, the age at which a pension was claimable, etc. (both of which are now irrelevant due to separate law changes), and yet it has inevitably morphed into something entirely different as was predicted.

The GRA needs to go it, allowing such a fundamental lie is wrong on every level and has led to the shit show we now have.

Honestly, I read the discussions for years and just thought it was some kind of metaphor.

And without downplaying my ignorance, if I can do that after all that time on this board then I'm going to take a punt that it's a pretty widespread view.

*PronounssheRa" · Yesterday 07:46

the GRC really does change your actual birth certificate, and my jaw hit the floor.

It's madness isn't it being able to officially falsify a document. Birth certificates record sex but this can be changed to reflect an internal sense of gender

It's really aggravating for me personally. I found out, when applying for a birth certificate at the age of 19, to get a passport, that my name was mis-spelled. I rang up to complain that they'd copied it wrong... Oh no they hadn't.

I had to gather as much documentation as possible and send it with my passport application.

Now, if I said my name is Doreen and I'm a woman, no fucking problem.

In a way though, I think this is good and shows their intention to just keep kicking the can down the road, rather than doing anything.

They saw what happened to Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP when they tried to force self-ID on Scotland and they won't want to repeat it. So they'll keep making non-committal noises and muttering about consultations, but they know it's a toxic and massively divisive issue and if they have any sense (debatable) they won't touch it with a barge pole.

Good point. I don’t agree that birth certificates should ever be changed but frankly if my child was suffering from this mental illness then that would hardly be the top of my priority list. Keeping an open relationship, trying to minimise self harm / mutilation and being there to pick up the pieces at the end would be the most important to me.

The record of birth does not just belong the child though does it.

For every woman that gives birth, this is also a legal record of the outcome of her birthing experience.

Are they saying those women have no right to have the truth of the sex of the child they gave birth to legally recorded?

I do love looking back at the interview of the Dutch man who really wanted to lower his age and his side conversation with J Fae. It was good watching.

I mentioned this before on a thread. Plus, were the results on the GRC process consultation in 2020 or 2021 not worth using as a guide for labour? It appears not. But anyone I ask just ignores that as an inconvenient fact and repeats ‘but, but…. a consultation!’ Like we didn’t already have one in very recent history that Labour don’t seem to have used to shape their policies.

But the falling support for 'transgender rights' (itself a loaded term, as PP have noted), is surely less to do with levels of 'tolerance', and more to do with increasing numbers of the public finding out what the hell is going on?

They don't want to face up to that reality. So they obfuscate it as much as possible.

it isn't "an increasingly open and accepting society" then?

I don't think it is. I think we lived in a more tolerant society thirty-plus years ago than we do now, in general terms. But the falling support for 'transgender rights' (itself a loaded term, as PP have noted), is surely less to do with levels of 'tolerance', and more to do with increasing numbers of the public finding out what the hell is going on?

This is interesting. The second question on transgender rights (page 25):

Do you think attempts to give equal opportunities have gone too far or not gone far enough for… Transgender people

I think the premise of this question could be challenged. It would be more interesting to see how many people see these opportunities as genuinely equal.

That's a really clear set of stats. The sunlight is making it undeniable to people who either didn't care before, or had a limited understanding of what was going on behind closed doors.

That's not to say that birth certs have been changed for my friends child or my relative but I think when push comes to shove, some people want to do right by their child despite the fact it might lead to long term fuck ups. And once a child is legal, they can do it themselves anyway.

A lot of it does boil down to family members not wanting to upset their relatives or "deny their reality" or to just be "right on".

My friend has 2 bio sons. One of the sons now identifies as she/her. My friend refers to her child as her daughter even though the child made it into adulthood as a male before swapping gender ID.

One of my relatives is bio female. Refers to themselves as him/they. My cousin refers to them as her nephew despite the fact they are clearly biologically female. It's so hard to navigate when it's close to home.

And this - (page 24 for both)