To those who consider prostitution rape...

I would say 0% of actual rape is OK.
Eewww.
You aren't really coming across all that well. When is a rape not an "actual rape"?

To sum up the argument:

Women are unable to accept accountability/personal accountability.

Also: men need to buy sex because its a need. Men can't be expected to check/know if the woman they are paying to have sex with is being trafficked. You can't expect men not to pay for sex with trafficked women when other forms of trafficking also exists, its not fair. I need sex, its a need, I can't find anyone to have sex with me that I don't pay.

(n.b. Not all men. But the men arguing this on this very thread).

So because modern slavery is OK so long as it doesn’t involve sex work?

I would say 0% of actual rape is OK.

ah, wataboutery

if this thread was called 'is all modern slavery rape' then that would be a cunning riposte

this thread however, is about prostitution

we've established that in at least some cases, purchasing sex is rape.

you have said that 0% of rape is acceptable

therefore it seems logical to assume that you now support measures to do away with the buying of sex?

How do you know they’re not trafficked? Do you ask to see a passport or interview them?

Have you ever used a had car wash? A nail bar? A takeaway?

What percentage of modern slavery is acceptable?

I would say 0% of actual rape is OK.

Great. The only safe way, therefore, is not to use sex workers.

Oh and I know you were being LOOK OVER HERE WHATABOUTERY but just to be clear, I hire workers I know for my home. They aren't trafficked.

so safer for no one to pay for sex, yes?

seems like the most logical way to achieve your zero rapes

So because modern slavery is OK so long as it doesn’t involve sex work?

I would say 0% of actual rape is OK.

Do you check the guys who come to cut down trees of build your extension to* make sure they have their passports?*

I'm not raping them. Again, what proportion of rapes are OK?

Their website literally says abolish prostitution in massive letters across the top, it’s not exactly going to be a balanced and representative view of the situation is it?

And BTW the Invisible Men Project collated punter's words about sex workers. I suggest no one reads it if you are likely to be traumatised. Some of them are literally describing rapes. prostitutionresearch.com/the-invisible-men-project/

This sanitised, fictional account of sex work as perfectly safe and happy is nonsense.

The example men use is always the Belle de Jour example. I've known so many sex workers and the worst 'per hour' was a woman who accepted snack food and a drink for a sex act. When she ate the food and drank the drink and then refused to do the act, he attacked her.

The economics of the sex trade are interesting. There was a time, a brief time, when mass addiction wasn't a thing, mass trafficking of foreign women wasn't as prevalent, and shame meant women to fuel the trade were few and far between, when sex work was better paid. Illicit drugs mean that the price of paid sex has fallen in most places. The industry has also ramped up with girls (not women) in places like Thailand wholesale bought and addicted so that they can be pimped easily. It's become cheaper to buy. Even in the magical utopia of Germany  you can get a BJ for 20 euros or less. Trafficking means you can always find a desperate woman, who doesn't have the language to seek help, to exploit.

And even if we are very generous, very very generous. Let's ignore the trauma-impacted, sexual abuse survivors and women who are acting out their abused lives. Let's ignore all of them. Let's ignore those with 'boyfriends' who pressure them. Let's focus on the percentage who are trafficked and/or addicted and desperate and unwilling but they have to.

@Laidbackguy what risk of you raping someone is acceptable? 10% of the women? 50% of the women? I'd argue that the only acceptable risk of raping someone is 0%. I assume you can admit that there is a significant risk, when using women in this way, that you are raping one. You wouldn't know if she has her passport, or if she's free to leave. You are therefore choosing to rape at least a proportion of them. Personal responsibility, right?

here we go again

'some women do OK from prostitution, therefore all buying and selling of sex is fine'

shall we remind ourselves of the facts for a moment?

https://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publications/Confronting_the_Harm_Briefing.pdf

More than one fifth (21%) of the sample who attended WHS more than once disclosed experiencing incidents of criminality, threats of harm or violence and actual violence, all of which occurred in the context of prostitution, and the vast majority of which were severe

Violence and the threats of violence are used by criminals, pimps, traffickers and buyers alike as a means to control women or ensure that they bend to their will – the evidence demonstrates that violence is endemic to the trade, and this was the case across all years of data collection

The most prevalent harms to the sexual health of women in prostitution result from the frequency with which multiple, different, often previously unknown buyers have sexual access to their bodies, demanding sex acts that are unwanted, undesired and violating

Women do not emerge from prostitution in better economic circumstances than when they first started – in fact quite the reverse – they were poor when they entered prostitution and, while they may have managed to support themselves and their families along the way, they are still poor if and when they leave.

sounds totally fine, doesn't it?