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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

80 new rape courts

379 replies

CassieMaddox · 09/06/2024 18:14

Labour pledging this as part of their manifesto commitment to reduce VAWG.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/08/labour-pledges-80-new-courts-in-bid-to-tackle-backlog-crisis

So pleased to see an actual tangible action targeted at something that will help women. I'm looking forward to seeing what else is in their manifesto now.

Labour pledges 80 new rape courts in bid to tackle backlog crisis

Plan for specialist unit in all police forces amid manifesto drive to reduce violence against women and girls

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/08/labour-pledges-80-new-courts-in-bid-to-tackle-backlog-crisis

OP posts:
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AlisonDonut · 10/06/2024 10:06

That's great @Alexandra2001 so where will he put anyone found guilty of rape?

I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad policy, just not really doable unless the intention is to find them all not guilty and just clear them off the books.

Alexandra2001 · 10/06/2024 10:06

AlisonDonut · 10/06/2024 09:51

Labour cannot simultaneously make the GRC process as easy as self identifying with one letter from any GP (who is not in a position to diagnose a psychiatric condition) and claim they won't bring in Self ID.

They cannot bring in a policy to address rape with nowhere to put the rapists.

And they are relying on a Tory policy for their data. Who they say are lying about everything else.

What are the chances that this is the one thing they are not lying about?

Well, it IS a lie that Labour will bring in self ID and you know it too.

They have said, as Kemi Badenoch also said, 2 years ago, that they want to simplify the process and will have a wide spread consultation on the subject, so you have no crystal ball, we just don't know the outcome.

ATM 96% of applicants get a GRC, so a 2 year self ID process.

If there are no places to put rapists, thats down to the Tories and austerity but is that a reason to do nothing about the situation?

i don't think so.

Alexandra2001 · 10/06/2024 10:01

NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:24

How many barristers do you know, @CassieMaddox?

My cousin is one, family law.

She says the emphasis can be moved over time to improve rape convictions.

Comes down to aspiration doesn't it, do we accept that we have effectively decriminalised rape or do we have the desire to change this?

As Starmer was knighted for his work at the CPS, i would suggest he knows what he is talking about a little more than the critics on this thread who, lets face it, are offering nothing more but criticism and no new ideas.

AlisonDonut · 10/06/2024 09:51

Labour cannot simultaneously make the GRC process as easy as self identifying with one letter from any GP (who is not in a position to diagnose a psychiatric condition) and claim they won't bring in Self ID.

They cannot bring in a policy to address rape with nowhere to put the rapists.

And they are relying on a Tory policy for their data. Who they say are lying about everything else.

What are the chances that this is the one thing they are not lying about?

ResisterRex · 10/06/2024 09:50

There aren't the resources. Personally I think it is much worse to lead victims to think change is going to happen because this plan has more holes than a sieve, but it is giving false hope to women who've been traumatised. I think that it grossly irresponsible.

What's needed is a long term plan that builds on Soteria. And that must include honesty about all the layers of staffing in the judiciary, CPS and the police, and the things they need to get rape cases to court.

What is definitely unwelcome is false hope. It is wrong.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 10/06/2024 09:47

CassieMaddox · 09/06/2024 19:57

Well this does just go to show how politicised this board is.
An actual tangible policy that will benefit women (aka adult human females) being pooh-poohed because it came from Labour.

Every single policy from every political party can and should be dissected to see if it would work with reference to the party's other stated positions and known weaknesses. This is no different. Never forget, we don't owe Labour, Tory or any other party anything.

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:43

ditalini · 10/06/2024 09:37

It's not women friendly when it clearly won't work and they absolutely know this!

They can do better, women expect better, and it's deeply worrying that even at this early stage in policy making, when they could offer the world on a stick, that they don't think it's worth the effort to deal with the obvious issues.

I think it will work. As alexandra said, the Tories claim there are judges for Rwanda. The BBC link I posted shows there is some capacity in the system for this, a bit of prioritised spending and I think they can make improvements.

I'd far rather see a government try, than just leave the status quo. Decriminalised rape is a scandal.

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CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:41

NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:35

As opposed to the comfort blanket of anyone challenging Labour's position and policies being Tories / right wing, you mean?

I'm fine with people challenging Labour's position and policies.

Inaccurate representation of their position and misquoting them (e.g. wrongly saying they will bring in self ID) comes across to me as a politically motivated argument and I assume that is from the right wing.

I personally find it really tedious to endlessly have to post the reality of Labour's policies to counter the misrepresentation and assume readers/lurkers also find it tedious. I'd rather discuss what posters think should be done about the effective decriminalisation of rape.

It's striking the answer from board regulars appears to be "its too hard, nothing can be done" Sad

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ditalini · 10/06/2024 09:37

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:32

Fine. It's always nice to go back to the comfort blanket of the left being meanie liars, I know. Helps manage the cognitive dissonance of them producing a woman friendly policy.

It's not women friendly when it clearly won't work and they absolutely know this!

They can do better, women expect better, and it's deeply worrying that even at this early stage in policy making, when they could offer the world on a stick, that they don't think it's worth the effort to deal with the obvious issues.

NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:35

As opposed to the comfort blanket of anyone challenging Labour's position and policies being Tories / right wing, you mean?

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:32

Fine. It's always nice to go back to the comfort blanket of the left being meanie liars, I know. Helps manage the cognitive dissonance of them producing a woman friendly policy.

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NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:29

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:27

I wrote the OP. I'd like to discuss the Labour policy on the issue of rape and other parties position on the same thanks. Rehashing posters cynicism about Labour and misunderstandings of their position on gender is tedious for all of us and also irrelevant to this thread.

As long as we're discussing what it's about (Labour's plans) you can't police what we're posting. But thanks for the guidance!

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:27

NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:24

We're discussing Labour, who are likely to be in government soon.

I wrote the OP. I'd like to discuss the Labour policy on the issue of rape and other parties position on the same thanks. Rehashing posters cynicism about Labour and misunderstandings of their position on gender is tedious for all of us and also irrelevant to this thread.

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NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:24

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:24

What are other parties planning to do about effective decriminalisation of rape?

We're discussing Labour, who are likely to be in government soon.

NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:24

How many barristers do you know, @CassieMaddox?

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:24

NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:22

They've also said that the EqA doesn't need amending and that they'll make it easier to get a GRC. Which creates an effective self ID system.

What are other parties planning to do about effective decriminalisation of rape?

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NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:23

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:21

I quoted what he said. He said it needs investment, not it is impossible.

Yeah, let's see how well it goes trying to persuade barristers that they want to do this work, given how badly it's paid (if you think they'll ever come close to the pay available in other disciplines, you clearly have a magic money tree).

NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:22

They've also said that the EqA doesn't need amending and that they'll make it easier to get a GRC. Which creates an effective self ID system.

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:21

NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:20

Yet the Criminal Bar Assoc in the same article, says there aren't enough barristers.

No point judges saying they're available if there aren't enough barristers!

I quoted what he said. He said it needs investment, not it is impossible.

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CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:20

ditalini · 10/06/2024 09:16

None of the parties have got a track record that suggests they will prioritise women, but yes as it looks like Labour will win it's their policies that need most scrutiny.

Labour will bring in self-id because it's cheap and they see it as a sop to the left and they don't care about consequences.

And when I see policies like this, when there is ample, easily found evidence that court space is not the reason for the horrific backlog in rape trials, I see a cheap sop and assume they don't care about the consequences.

Women deserve better and we need to question and examine and hold to account, not just accept that oh well it's something.

Labour have specifically said they don't support self ID. That's scaremongering.

Have any other parties said what they will do about the effective decriminalisation of rape?

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NoWordForFluffy · 10/06/2024 09:20

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:11

Interesting from the senior judge in charge of rape prosecutions in March:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68483956

"The system has recovered its capacity. We are now in a position to make some choices, we are not in a hand-to-mouth crisis now."

If the government is serious about prioritising rape cases then it needs to urgently invest in the dedicated workforce who are specially trained in this work

This looks to me like the capacity is there but needs some priority and focus e.g. a manifesto commitment

Yet the Criminal Bar Assoc in the same article, says there aren't enough barristers.

No point judges saying they're available if there aren't enough barristers!

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 09:18

ResisterRex · 10/06/2024 09:13

Also there is an important word in that sentence - "theoretical"

Yes. You're trying to diminish this further. It's not airy fairy theory. It's real. It's happening. Labour don't plan to stop it. HTH

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/trans-patients-nhs-constitution-single-sex-wards-women-b1154587.html

Sir Keir Starmer has said his views on gender issues “start with biology” as he backed blocking trans women from female-only hospital wards and prisons.

Labour aren't in power yet. And Starmer has said the above. Therefore any assertion he'll put TW rapists in womens prisons is theoretical.

Meanwhile actual rape victims are waiting years to get their cases heard and barely any reported rapes result in conviction, so rapists are getting away with it and are free to carry on raping. That is reality.

I prioritise a proven reality that is harming women and children over a theoretical risk.

Starmer backs ban on trans women from female-only hospital wards

Labour leader says his views on gender issues ‘start with biology’

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/trans-patients-nhs-constitution-single-sex-wards-women-b1154587.html

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ditalini · 10/06/2024 09:16

AlisonDonut · 10/06/2024 09:04

Taking this on face value.

I believe that Labour believe that they could have this policy.

I don't believe they have actually thought it through.

I don't believe that there are enough judges or court space to hold the trials.

I don't believe that the police can be trusted to obtain, keep and hand over any viable evidence that could help to bring justice to women.

I don't believe that the rape cases would end up with more men being found guilty.

I don't believe that if they were, that the men could be found places in prisons.

I don't believe that the Labour Party would keep men who say they are women out of female jails.

I would absolutely love to believe that any of this is possible, no matter who was the party coming up with it. It seems like it could be a way of trying to win back women to vote Labour. Which means that they think they might lose. So that's interesting.

None of the parties have got a track record that suggests they will prioritise women, but yes as it looks like Labour will win it's their policies that need most scrutiny.

Labour will bring in self-id because it's cheap and they see it as a sop to the left and they don't care about consequences.

And when I see policies like this, when there is ample, easily found evidence that court space is not the reason for the horrific backlog in rape trials, I see a cheap sop and assume they don't care about the consequences.

Women deserve better and we need to question and examine and hold to account, not just accept that oh well it's something.

ResisterRex · 10/06/2024 09:13

Also there is an important word in that sentence - "theoretical"

Yes. You're trying to diminish this further. It's not airy fairy theory. It's real. It's happening. Labour don't plan to stop it. HTH

AlisonDonut · 10/06/2024 09:12

OP do you work in the court system at all?