Scared and disheartened today

There will be more research following on from Cass review of the other adult clinics. I don't think the results will be good - otherwise why and try and hide it. Labour can't continue with this medical scandal and even finding adult operations when they know evidence is so weak and nhs will get sued in future. Law suits are happening

We'll always have the Lords. 😭

We also have the Lords

I wouldn't be too despondent........we've managed to get this issue into the pubic realm and significant steps have been made on raising consciousness. The Cass Review has been commisssioned and cannot be put back in the box; neither can any of the other significant books and texts that have been written in the last few years. We've also now got significant campaign infrastructure ( Sex Matters/Transgender Trend/ FPFW) and so on

Labour were always going to press ahead with Self ID ( which is what they are proposing in any other name) no matter how they tried to disguise the fact - and soon there will be government benches packed with trans activist MPs ,but also with those who are happy enough to go along with it all - for the sake of their careers. We knew this.

But Labour will now be challenged every step of the way. -and hopefully the Tories will retain Kemi Badenoch, Victoria Atkins and others who understand the issue and are not afraid to pursue it. I wonder who will end up as the Education secretary ( Bridget Phillipson?) - because trans ideology in schools in going to continue to be a huge issue - and the big teaching unions are sold on it.

The inevitable issues and events will arise, though, as they have already been doing ( sexual predators and fetishists in women's spaces; detransitioners wanting to take action against doctors and professionals, and so on.....). We just carry on - because it has always been a long haul campaign. Labour will not be able to call it a "Tory culture war" any more - because they'll be directly responsible for whatever they do, or they don't do. They cannot say they were not warned or told.

What happens in America will be important too.........because that is where this shit started and where most of the funding comes from.

I am going to write to all of my candidates and listen to their responses.

I'll make a decision based on the individual candidate rather than the party.

I've completed exactly this thought loop about 4 times now! I won't vote Tory (based on the utter shitshow of the last few years and general state of the country after 14 years of Tory rule), I want to vote Labour but genuinely feel I can't while they continue to sell women and our hard won rights down the river. My constituency has four candidates, Lab, Con, Libdem and Reform, rocks and hard places spring to mind 🙄

I suspect most labour MPs are keeping their heads down on the issue. It's only a very few that are outspoken. I think it might get quietly shelved when they win and there is loads of proper things to sort out

If Labour don't know what a woman is, how can they protect them?

I''m afraid that it will bring a huge disaster to wake people up. I don't wish for one but something along the lines of the thalidomide story. I'm looking towards a massive medical scandal that will involve thousands suing the health service - it is surely brewing but a lot more damage will probably be done before it really takes off. The sheer scale of the damage could take years to unfold - the sterility, crumbling bones, cancers etc. attributable to puberty blockers, wrong sex hormones etc. In the meantime Labour and its handservants - Liberals, Greens etc. are walking blindly into the abyss.

One of the immediate actions we can take is to campaign for IPSO to change its stupid guidelines preventing journalists from describing transwomen as men. It is perpetuating a lie, which has real life effects - distorting crime statistics and making it appear that women are suddenly morphing into rapists and murderers.

Also, we as women, should stop worrying about being described as bigots or terfs. My response to an accusation of being a bigot or terf (which occasionally happens when I voice my opinion) is "so what?" or "I don't care" - and I really don't.

I too feel despondent and feel it’s inevitable Self ID will come into law pretty soon.
The only plus point is Cass and the fact dc will be more protected.
I wont vote for the Tory’s, though, I cousins live with myself. Labour are going to win by a landslide and there’s not much, the relatively few people who are concerned about self ID, can do about it.

My hope is that once they’re in power and realise the full extent of the massive shit show they’ve inherited and that they’ve got to deal with, is that they’ll have no time for the perpetual whining of the never satisfied wing of TRA

Unfortunately I think it's more likely that once they realise the extent of the shit show (if they don't already) they'll be even more eager to press on with self-ID-Lite because they'll see it as relatively low cost. The only hope I can see is that GPs might kick off.

Sorry I'm feeling very negative today. I'm sure I'll bounce back soon

I think that's realistic. Maybe SKS "35000 women have a penis" wasn't an estimate, but a goal?

I don't disagree with you either @Floisme , it will be very difficult. Hence my indecision. I feel like I'm being asked to choose between the NHS (and public services in general) and women's rights. It's impossible.

Yes I agree. My hope is that once they’re in power and realise the full extent of the massive shit show they’ve inherited and that they’ve got to deal with, is that they’ll have no time for the perpetual whining of the never satisfied wing of TRA

my biggest fear is that they’ll bring in self ID by any other name ie get a doctor to sign this form, give us £5 and you’re a woman because it will be in their eyes a quick easy ‘win’

Yep. Labour have made it clear they don't even feel they need to pretend to care.

The country is going to vote for them whatever they say or do.

That said, I'm not sure if a Labour landslide is a better option than a Lab/Lib coalition ...

Truth and logic must surely come back into fashion at some point.

Hopefully.

My seat is a tory stronghold.

Lucky for Labour libs and greens, we are 'blessed' with both Reform and AFD candidates. So they should hopefully bleed off the "What we need is a bigger harder BREXIT!!!!!" and "I did my own research flat earth vaxpiracy" tendencies, respectively, from the tory vote.

Can you even believe it, labour have a chance, apparently (thanks a lot to the tory splitters, keep it up, good work you absolute lunatics)

I can't disagree with that @Disc0mbobulated but I'm afraid I think the idea that we can fight it once they're in power with a big majority is delusional. Sorry.

@Floisme unfortunately I don't think they need our vote enough. Labour are almost guaranteed a landslide victory regardless. There are not enough of us to swing this one. If it was a closer fight then Labour might have actually courted our vote but as it is they can afford to ignore this issue.

SDP have some good policies but good luck getting housing as a single mother under their plans.

I sympathise with the 'I'll vote Labour and fight the gender battle later' line of thinking. But I think the only time we have a substantial bargaining chip is now, when they need our votes. Once they've got them they won't need to even pretend to listen.

It looks as if I might have got lucky as regards my own dilemma as we seem to have at least one independent candidate who looks promising. But that's not going to change the election result.

I'm wavering but unlucky for certain posters, I seem to be immune to smug, patronising and guilt trips.

What I need, is a reason to believe Labour will protect women's rights and single sex spaces and women's sport. I don't give a flying fig about why you think KJK is naughty or boo hoo we don't like the tories. Heard it. Why should I vote Labour?

I know exactly what you mean. The recent interview with a former judge, who's happy to trample selfishly all over women's needs, made me furious.

It is intensely frustrating to have to work so hard just to try and reinstate the rights women had 20 years ago.

However - at the risk of being unduly portentous - I tend to agree with the Martin Luther King quote: "The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice".

Truth and logic must surely come back into fashion at some point.

I've been unsure what to do for ages now. I really don't want to vote Conservative but couldn't see how I could vote Labour either due to their inability to define a woman. I'm English but live in Scotland now. I still care what happens in England. There are no independents standing in my constituency so it's just the usual suspects.

After watching various debates etc this week I'd decided that getting the tories out was the only way to give the NHS a fighting chance. Another 5 years of the tories would probably kill it off for good. So I'd decided to vote Labour and hope that we can bring the gender stuff crashing down around their ears, like it has in Scotland.

Now after reading this thread I'm back to undecided again 😖

I'm feeling despondent too, there's been two televised debates and women's rights or trans issues haven't even been mentioned - I was expecting them to be front and centre.

I know that Isla Bryson was difficult for Sturgeon, but I would say it was likely Operation Branchform and other internal issues that actually brought her down.

I don't know what to say to cheer you, OP, only that no matter the political manoeuverings, the world will go on being round.

I'm deflated and disheartened by all the infighting today. Usually I find it an inevitable part of a very disparate movement that is cross party and grassroots and raggle taggle (no offense), but today I really tired and down. I suspect a lot of people feel the same. We are facing a Labour government and I am afraid of what they're going to do with their self righteousness and their refusal to ever listen to any dissent.

It's been a long time and progress is in such tiny increments. Perhaps it needs to be in order to be lasting. And perhaps 'the price of freedom is eternal vigilance'.

We have Cass, we have the School guidance, we have Forstater and dozens of other legal cases establishing that in almost every instance, gender heretics are legally justified.

Still, the counter to that is that even given the case against Edinburgh Rape Crisis finding they harassed and discriminated, Mridhul Wadhwa remains in place.