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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Let Women Speak Norwich - 08 Jun 2024, 13:00 – 15:00

109 replies

IwantToRetire · 07/06/2024 01:09

Norwich War Memorial, Market Pl, Norwich NR2 1NE, UK

Join us in Norwich!

At Let Women Speak we foster a community in which all women feel empowered to speak. We achieve this through our free speech events, they are free to attend. We are so proud that women across the world are using the #LetWomenSpeak hashtag as a rallying cry.

All Let Women Speak events are held in outdoor public places. Places are chosen so that they are as accessible as possible and not far from public transport.

There are no tickets, anyone can turn up, and anyone can speak (but we ask that men wait until the end). You can speak about whatever you like, these are free speech events.

As always, it is completely free to come to our Let Women Speak events, and no one will ask to see a ticket! However, at Let Women Speak we are very lucky to have an extraordinary team of stewards who give up their free time to enable women to speak. They are all volunteers, but we need to ensure that they’re not out of pocket. Each UK event needs a £2000 steward and security fund to make it possible. Thank you so much for your contribution to Let Women Speak! If you cannot contribute, please select £0, as this will give us a rough idea of numbers.

https://www.letwomenspeak.org/event-details/let-women-speak-norwich

Let Women Speak Norwich | Let Women Speak

<p>Join us in Norwich!</p> <p></p> <p>At Let Women Speak we foster a community in which all women feel empowered to speak.  We achieve this through our free speech events, they are free to attend.  We are so proud that women across the world are using...

https://www.letwomenspeak.org/event-details/let-women-speak-norwich

OP posts:
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9
HappyPinkMoose · 13/06/2024 14:01

zibzibara · 10/06/2024 16:24

I clicked on it and read it but it didn't faze me. It would be like if I went to an animal rights rally and some far-right thugs turned up as well, doesn't mean I agree with them or that I'm going to start eating meat as a consequence of this.

Your analogy doesn't work, animal rights are not a central belief of the far right/fascism

IwantToRetire · 10/06/2024 17:44

zibzibara · 10/06/2024 16:24

I clicked on it and read it but it didn't faze me. It would be like if I went to an animal rights rally and some far-right thugs turned up as well, doesn't mean I agree with them or that I'm going to start eating meat as a consequence of this.

Its a bit like turning up on a thread on FWR and finding there is a hard core of posters who have no interest in women's sex based rights.

But it doesn't stop we checking in! Grin

OP posts:
zibzibara · 10/06/2024 16:24

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 13:54

That link is shocking. I doubt many readers on this thread will click on it however

I clicked on it and read it but it didn't faze me. It would be like if I went to an animal rights rally and some far-right thugs turned up as well, doesn't mean I agree with them or that I'm going to start eating meat as a consequence of this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/06/2024 13:59

Great quotes from the fantastic Dr Em, in particular, in that local news article.

CassieMaddox · 10/06/2024 13:54

HappyPinkMoose · 10/06/2024 13:47

I've been reading and rereading this comment since you posted it, and I just can't get my head around your seemingly honest confusion at why people are reacting to LWS events in this way. So I wanted to reply in good faith and hope that my reply is taken in that way.

I would also like to preface this by saying this is not a personal attack, I don't not know you and I totally believe that you do not hate groups of people and that you are well meaning.

However, the leader of LWS is denying the existence of and advocating for the removal of rights of a certain group of people, this is a main tactic and characteristic tenet of fascism. This is why some people (rightly or wrongly) are calling LWS fascistic or even Nazi. This is why far right organisations will continue to turn up to LWS events because they share a central belief that there is are certain groups of people who should be treated differently than other people and have rights taken away from them. If you are not comfortable with this, it may be worth considering if you wish to continue to support LWS.

Here's a handy list of the far right organisations (with scene shots) that showed support for the LWS rally in Glasgow. https://transsafety.network/posts/glasgow-far-right-standing-for-women/

That link is shocking. I doubt many readers on this thread will click on it however

HappyPinkMoose · 10/06/2024 13:47

hellointernet12 · 08/06/2024 20:26

I've been reading and listening to the people on the other side and they honestly truly believe that we hate trans people and don't want them to exist. This isn't true, we just don't think that they are literally women. That doesn't mean we hate them or don't want them to exist. Well obviously I don't speak for all TERFs but I certainly don't hate them and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for most of us.

It's bizarre to me how they have misunderstood us so much. It is bizarre listening to them talk about what they think we feel, it's like being in a weird parallel dimension. This probably has alot to do with the TRA peddling lies that LWS is a nazi movement.

Edited

I've been reading and rereading this comment since you posted it, and I just can't get my head around your seemingly honest confusion at why people are reacting to LWS events in this way. So I wanted to reply in good faith and hope that my reply is taken in that way.

I would also like to preface this by saying this is not a personal attack, I don't not know you and I totally believe that you do not hate groups of people and that you are well meaning.

However, the leader of LWS is denying the existence of and advocating for the removal of rights of a certain group of people, this is a main tactic and characteristic tenet of fascism. This is why some people (rightly or wrongly) are calling LWS fascistic or even Nazi. This is why far right organisations will continue to turn up to LWS events because they share a central belief that there is are certain groups of people who should be treated differently than other people and have rights taken away from them. If you are not comfortable with this, it may be worth considering if you wish to continue to support LWS.

Here's a handy list of the far right organisations (with scene shots) that showed support for the LWS rally in Glasgow. https://transsafety.network/posts/glasgow-far-right-standing-for-women/

zibzibara · 09/06/2024 16:54

darksideofthetune · 09/06/2024 04:18

Kellie-Jay saying it should be legal to be able to discriminate against trans people in matters such as housing and employment hasn't helped things.

LWS is bigger than KJK, those of us who have attended don't necessarily agree with her on everything. I disagree with her on that and some other things she's said but still support LWS.

Helleofabore · 09/06/2024 06:27

hellointernet12 · 08/06/2024 20:26

I've been reading and listening to the people on the other side and they honestly truly believe that we hate trans people and don't want them to exist. This isn't true, we just don't think that they are literally women. That doesn't mean we hate them or don't want them to exist. Well obviously I don't speak for all TERFs but I certainly don't hate them and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for most of us.

It's bizarre to me how they have misunderstood us so much. It is bizarre listening to them talk about what they think we feel, it's like being in a weird parallel dimension. This probably has alot to do with the TRA peddling lies that LWS is a nazi movement.

Edited

I attended a Londonnevenr last year and made that comment to a police man. I was standing holding hands with other women facing the angry protestors about 1.8 m away and the copper was in between . He asked why and I explained. He didn’t say anything of course. But the slogans the ran through were ridiculous in that there were not reflective of the what the won men were speaking about or campaigning for . At all.

Several women tried to point this out, but with all the noise nobody listened. Even when it went relatively quiet they just replied back with more falsehoods. Many genuinely don’t understand the issues or what women are campaigning for.

dunBle · 09/06/2024 04:20

"They wore masks and shielded themselves with umbrellas to protect their identities from protesters, who shouted out threats and abuse and tried to photograph them on their phones."

Really? The masks and brollies sounds familiar, but is the paper suggesting the LWS lot were shouting threats and abuse? They're usually heading in the opposite direction, on past evidence.

darksideofthetune · 09/06/2024 04:18

hellointernet12 · 09/06/2024 03:07

Look at that mumsnet thread. It is insane. ''The people at the posie parker event are scum who hate transpeople and don't want them to exist''. How can they be so wrong.

Kellie-Jay saying it should be legal to be able to discriminate against trans people in matters such as housing and employment hasn't helped things.

toomanytrees · 09/06/2024 04:00

KJK posts the Let Women Speak events on Youtube. The short speeches that individual women make, some deeply personal really give a face and a voice to the effects of this insidious ideology. I hope one day the speeches are compiled in book form.

Lynn Pinches spoke at Norwich about how important sport was to her and the devastating emotional impact of having to compete against a male. (about the 1 hour 28 minute mark). It is worth a listen.

KJK gives a voice to women. Authoritarian and intolerant leftists want to shut women up.

hellointernet12 · 09/06/2024 03:14

Meant ''Look at that reddit thread'' sorry

hellointernet12 · 09/06/2024 03:07

Look at that mumsnet thread. It is insane. ''The people at the posie parker event are scum who hate transpeople and don't want them to exist''. How can they be so wrong.

BezMills · 09/06/2024 02:49

Thanks for the thread and the reporting

CassieMaddox · 09/06/2024 00:04

AlisonDonut · 08/06/2024 21:01

And all the others.

We should rename this board the Kellie Jay Keen Milkshake board.

🙄

CassieMaddox · 09/06/2024 00:04

zibzibara · 08/06/2024 20:46

Please can we not derail this thread into a copy of that other one from yesterday.

It's not a derail to point out other instances of Tommy Robinson affiliations. You just don't like it.

AlisonDonut · 08/06/2024 22:52

Pete Burns would be very proud of that spin!

MarieDeGournay · 08/06/2024 22:38

Thank you for posting the report.
'Two young men held up a sign on the memorial side of the street which read: "Stop discriminating against non-woke students." '
This would appear to be the Students Against Tyranny presence? All two of them!

AnotherHelenB · 08/06/2024 22:19

You may need a subscription to read it; this is a local news report
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24375250.transgender-activists-pro-women-group-protest-norwich/

Tempers flared as two rival protests were held in Norwich city centre over women's and transgender rights.

Hundreds of people gathered outside Norwich City Hall and the Norwich War Memorial in St Peters Street on Saturday afternoon.

Eight police officers stood on both sides of the street on patrol as activists clashed verbally throughout the protest and counter protest.

Let Women Speak is an organisation which claims to be a free speech movement, with organisers describing themselves as "gender critical feminists".

The event in the city centre was designed to provide a platform to defend women's sex-based rights, which they say are threatened by trans ideology.

With a microphone in hand, activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, also known as Posie Parker, encouraged members of the public from Norwich to speak about their own experiences.

Previous Let Women Speak events around the UK and abroad have led to major clashes, often met with counter-protests from trans groups who disagree with Ms Keen's criticism of trans ideology.

On the steps of Norwich City Hall, a counter protest was organised by local trans activists who stood with their friends, holding pride flags.

They wore masks and shielded themselves with umbrellas to protect their identities from protesters, who shouted out threats and abuse and tried to photograph them on their phones.

They chanted, "trans rights are human rights", "we just want to survive", "shame on you" and "fascists go home".
Stewards from Let Women Speak handed out leaflets which read: "We do not want to be compelled into pretending men can be women."

The statements added: "We do not want our children to be indoctrinated into this dangerous ideology" and "transitioning children is profound abuse."

One woman who took to the stage said: "Sometimes hearing people use terms like 'all genders' is like fingernails on a chalkboard."

Another women said: "This is institutional misogyny."

Two young men held up a sign on the memorial side of the street which read: "Stop discriminating against non-woke students."

The Let Women Speak event at the Norwich War Memorial, met with a counter protest led by transgender activists on the steps of the City Hall
The Let Women Speak event at the Norwich War Memorial, met with a counter protest led by transgender activists on the steps of the City Hall (Image: Newsquest)
Ms Keen promoted her new political campaign Party of Women that stood five candidates in the local elections last month.

Her leaflets read: "We will inject common sense and plain speaking into politics" and "are you willing to help us defend this country from madness?"

Ms Keen said to the crowd: "The thing that they don't realise, and by 'they' I mean to discriminate against them as a group, is the more they stand there opposing what we say, the more people walking past will say, why are those upstanding, relatively unemployed people over there opposing what these women are saying?"

Standing with security guards in suits and sunglasses, one passer by compared Ms Keen-Minshull to former US President Donald Trump, he said: "We all know who she's trying to be."

Organisers of the trans rights counter protest were approached for a comment, but declined to respond.

However, one member from the crowd, who wished to remain anonymous, explained: "People don't feel safe, its dangerous for us to be here today."

Members of the crowds on both sides of the street were held back by police throughout the afternoon.

One person shouted across to the pro-women activists, calling them "scum" and "nazis".

A middle-aged male, which passers by had described as a "rottweiler" stood on the edge of the road as he swore abuse at the transgender activists, taunting them to "come over".

One transgender man who was passing by said, "I just want to live my life, I just want to be happy" he added, "I had to wait years before I got my treatment, but I'm not afraid to be me."

"No matter what you do in life, no matter what you change, there's always going to be someone out there who's going to knock you down.

"I don't understand how my identity contributes to ruining these people's lives."

Another member of the pro-women group, Dr Em, said: "All we're saying is children aren't born wrong and science is real. The other side likes to silence us.

"I didn't think I'd have to wade in on transgender ideology until Keir Starmer said some women have penises - I thought this was insane."

Observing the transgender activists, she said: "You see the adult men getting a sexual kick out of it.

"They're almost groomed students. I'm really sad for them, they don't even realise what they're chanting."

Another spokesman from the Let Women Speak movement said: "We're campaigning to keep female language and female spaces, female only, our rights are on the line and our children need protecting."
--

Comments after the article note that there were 2 assaults by transactivists, both reported to police. One targeted a disabled woman speaker by throwing liquid over her and another was committed by a Labour party activist and former councillor. There's also a reference to 'A woman distributing leaflets was assaulted', which is presumably the second of the two mentioned above.

AlisonDonut · 08/06/2024 21:01

zibzibara · 08/06/2024 20:46

Please can we not derail this thread into a copy of that other one from yesterday.

And all the others.

We should rename this board the Kellie Jay Keen Milkshake board.

IwantToRetire · 08/06/2024 20:51

Please can we not derail this thread into a copy of that other one from yesterday.

Perhaps we could ask MNHQ to introduce a 2 strikes and your out?!

OP posts:
zibzibara · 08/06/2024 20:46

CassieMaddox · 08/06/2024 20:16

LWS could not use stewards who attend far right marches and if their leaflets are handed out at far right events they could make a statement distancing themselves from it.

The "we can't stop what other people do, its just coincidence" is wearing a bit thin now

Please can we not derail this thread into a copy of that other one from yesterday.

IwantToRetire · 08/06/2024 20:38

Toseland · 08/06/2024 20:27

Just got home - some great speeches, good turnout, amplified music at the beginning from our protesters was allowed by the police, Glinner was there, we were shouted at for a couple of hours by masked blokes waving flags, apparently we're facists. Incident at the end when water was thrown by an infiltrator. Sore hands (clapping)!

Glad to here it passed off safely.

And yes sounds like the usual TRA tactics.

.
PS - to all those somehow implying women should be responsible for what men do, instead of coming on a thread like this and virtually saying women made this apparently right wing group meet on the same day, the question is why you wouldn't stand up for women?

It would be more sisterly to say just how disgusting it is that a right wing group appears to have tried to pre-empt the LWS meeting. Or at least said its a shame that on the same day a right wing group held a meeting.

But all this virtue signally is in fact yet another male left tactic to say to women STFU.

Get a grip.

FWR is about women organising and discussing women's sex based rights.

Not an opportunity to scold women for being so brazen as to speak up for their rights.

PPS for any interested in what women have and want to say video available here 1

Let Women Speak - Norwich 2024 #LetWomenSpeakNorwich

This is the original #AdultHumanFemale channel and home of Kellie-Jay Keen aka Posie Parker.If you would like to donate to help support us, click here ⇨ http...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?index=21&list=PLgSfHNWm4FOq_gAn4k2bl_9MTRu4IGLY2&v=oC0IDNHh-wQ

OP posts:
Toseland · 08/06/2024 20:27

PepeParapluie · 08/06/2024 19:38

Does anyone have an update on how the event went today? I hope it was ok?

Just got home - some great speeches, good turnout, amplified music at the beginning from our protesters was allowed by the police, Glinner was there, we were shouted at for a couple of hours by masked blokes waving flags, apparently we're facists. Incident at the end when water was thrown by an infiltrator. Sore hands (clapping)!

hellointernet12 · 08/06/2024 20:26

I've been reading and listening to the people on the other side and they honestly truly believe that we hate trans people and don't want them to exist. This isn't true, we just don't think that they are literally women. That doesn't mean we hate them or don't want them to exist. Well obviously I don't speak for all TERFs but I certainly don't hate them and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for most of us.

It's bizarre to me how they have misunderstood us so much. It is bizarre listening to them talk about what they think we feel, it's like being in a weird parallel dimension. This probably has alot to do with the TRA peddling lies that LWS is a nazi movement.