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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour won't back Tory pledge to protect single-sex spaces

111 replies

Abeona · 03/06/2024 11:06

Apparently women already have enough protection. Try telling that to the women who were left to deal with man in the women's loos in my local M&S the other day. He wouldn't leave until one of them phoned the police. There needs to be an absolutely clear 'no men in women's single-sex spaces' law. Any grey area leaves predatory men space to manouevre.

http://archive.today/1YofY

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Abeona · 04/06/2024 13:01

I note the long silence from @Rosaluxemberg C'mon, Rosa, put together a cogent and evidenced argument and come back to me. This is the way we both learn and maybe we'll change our positions. I started on what used to be the far left, which now seems fairly centrist. My opinions on an awful lot of things. have changed with time and perspective.

To add to what I said in response to you last night, this morning I've been canvassing for Labour and one of the women I've been walking around with has talked about how her family's ability to buy their council house in Cardiff in the 80s totally transformed the family fortunes. She's a working class Labour voter singing the praises of Thatcher's right-to-buy policy. What would you say to her?

OP posts:
Scavernick · 04/06/2024 08:04

Abeona · 03/06/2024 22:28

Given how well every boomer is supposed to have done out of what you call 50 years of Tory hegemony, and give how crap the 1970s were (I'm old enough to remember the power cuts, the three day week, the unending strikes and my dad close to a nervous breakdown with worry about how to pay all the bills), and given how anyone under the age of 35 thinks that the 80s and 90s was a golden age (it didn't feel like that at the time), I'm tempted to say that the last 50 years probably weren't as bad for many people as you'd like to make out. I see a lot of people mourning the good old days.

Per capita Wales receives more than most areas of the UK. The Welsh government has total control over Education, Health and social care, Housing, and Highways and transport and other sectors. Wales performs worst among UK nations in maths, reading and science. This article from the BBC indicates how badly the NHS is performing in Wales. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66511635. The housing crisis is as bad here in Wales as it is in many parts of the UK. So is the pothole crisis. If anyone in England is expecting major improvements under a Labour government, they need to brace themselves for disappointment.

As for this 'Tory Brexit' you speak of, have you already forgotten that Corbyn was an ardent Brexiteer?

Edited

👏

Abeona · 03/06/2024 22:28

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:14

@Abeona what’s your opinion on 50 odd years of Tory hedgemony ? You do know that Wales gets its funding from London yes ?

Given how well every boomer is supposed to have done out of what you call 50 years of Tory hegemony, and give how crap the 1970s were (I'm old enough to remember the power cuts, the three day week, the unending strikes and my dad close to a nervous breakdown with worry about how to pay all the bills), and given how anyone under the age of 35 thinks that the 80s and 90s was a golden age (it didn't feel like that at the time), I'm tempted to say that the last 50 years probably weren't as bad for many people as you'd like to make out. I see a lot of people mourning the good old days.

Per capita Wales receives more than most areas of the UK. The Welsh government has total control over Education, Health and social care, Housing, and Highways and transport and other sectors. Wales performs worst among UK nations in maths, reading and science. This article from the BBC indicates how badly the NHS is performing in Wales. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66511635. The housing crisis is as bad here in Wales as it is in many parts of the UK. So is the pothole crisis. If anyone in England is expecting major improvements under a Labour government, they need to brace themselves for disappointment.

As for this 'Tory Brexit' you speak of, have you already forgotten that Corbyn was an ardent Brexiteer?

picture of operating theatre

NHS: Is Wales worse than England for waiting lists?

Can waiting times be compared between Wales and England?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66511635

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 03/06/2024 21:27

Scavernick · 03/06/2024 21:24

This shit really needs to stop. People might disagree with you - stop behaving like a bloody two year old when they do FFS. Grow up.

Thanks @Scavernick

I thought the same. It’s ridiculous

It’s not as if women and children aren’t impacted by gender ideology. And here we are with those posts.

Depressing

Scavernick · 03/06/2024 21:25

Kier Starmer's job hs been to get Labour elected - and to do that he has shifted position in every conceiveable way so as to appeal to reluctant voters. Except on Trans ideology - very bizarrely. This will come back to haunt him, though. There is no doubt about this

Wise words.

Scavernick · 03/06/2024 21:24

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:16

@EasternStandard in your dreams pal. But your unsuccessful attempts at trolling for the Tory party are pitiful 😂

This shit really needs to stop. People might disagree with you - stop behaving like a bloody two year old when they do FFS. Grow up.

OzziePopPop · 03/06/2024 21:18

averylongtimeago · 03/06/2024 15:03

This is why so many people, including me, feel politically homeless. Of course we don't want the revolting Tory policies to continue to destroy our country- but how can we vote for a party which is determined to put the demands of the TRA lobby in place of the rights of women?

Exactly. I’m a disabled, gender critical woman with an 18 year old daughter. I can’t vote conservative, it’d be shooting myself in the foot (not that I’d feel it, neuropathy 😂) but I can’t vote labour either.

in our constituency I need to vote labour (tactically) to remove bloody Liam Fox but voting labour is literally grating on me…..

FigRollsAlly · 03/06/2024 20:42

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:08

@FigRollsAlly bollocks. Most of us that intend to vote Labour are well aware that the Tories could still win especially when there are so many ‘life long’ Labour voters suddenly changing the habit of a lifetime and opting for the Conservatives because of gender ideology (which incidentally isn’t in the top ten of issues for most pragmatic voters). And obviously you’ve got the shy tories too. Wouldn’t be surprised if Farridge did a deal with them so pat yourselves on the back for supporting that moron, such is the total lack of integrity on the part of the tories.

So because we are fuming at Labour for continuing to dismiss our very real concerns we are somehow supporting Nigel effing Farage. All the polls show that Labour will be in power in a month’s time, it’s just a question of how many seats they’ll win. That’s why women are desperate for them to show that they’ve changed on this issue.

ditalini · 03/06/2024 20:27

I think people are going to be sorely disappointed in a new Labour government.

It's pretty clear that there's going to be precious little money for services and it'll take years to undo Tory austerity. Plus voter-acceptable Labour aren't actually very left.

Gender woo is the one cheap sop that they can throw to the left to try to distract from some tough times to come.

It's still going to be shit to be old, disabled, sick but hopefully maintaining the level of shitness and not getting worse.

It'll be a bit more shit for women, but we don't count so shrug.

RebelliousCow · 03/06/2024 20:26

14 years is a long time in government for a party of any political persuasion.

Though it is highly unlikely that Labour is going to provide the much longed for relief that many are desperately hoping for. Labour have signed up to all the current spending commitments, and have back-tracked on virtually all of the manifesto pledges they once stood for. The Left despises Starmer and has long seen him as a right wing 'Blairite'. Many of those people will not be voting Labour this time ( either the Greens, Reform, or else parties that are far more Left wing) - although it will not prevent them from securing a majority - as most people are seeking refreshment, and a change.

Kier Starmer's job hs been to get Labour elected - and to do that he has shifted position in every conceiveable way so as to appeal to reluctant voters. Except on Trans ideology - very bizarrely. This will come back to haunt him, though. There is no doubt about this.

Chersfrozenface · 03/06/2024 20:21

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:14

@Abeona what’s your opinion on 50 odd years of Tory hedgemony ? You do know that Wales gets its funding from London yes ?

Public spending per head in Wales is £13,967 (11% above the UK average) - figure from the Treasury's analysis for 2023.

And has been said, the Labour government in Cardiff is solely responsible for policy, administration and funding in health and education.

EasternStandard · 03/06/2024 20:18

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:16

@EasternStandard in your dreams pal. But your unsuccessful attempts at trolling for the Tory party are pitiful 😂

Ok pal

You are obsessed, it’s clear.

Whatever. Gender ideology suits you

Theeyeballsinthesky · 03/06/2024 20:18

Have you heard of cuts to benefits ? It’s becoming increasingly difficult to get pip. Have you seen the state of maternity services ? Women killed by men because of not enough policemen. Surestarts shut as well as libraries. I’d agree with you if everything was fecking hunky dory but it isn’t.
**
indeed things are not hunky dory

the civil service, local authorities and the NHS are stonewalled to the eyeballs and also struggling with budgets and yet tellingly they are far more likely to focus their limited budgets & time running around placating TRA rather than focusing on helping women

Women don’t count

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:16

@EasternStandard in your dreams pal. But your unsuccessful attempts at trolling for the Tory party are pitiful 😂

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:14

@Abeona what’s your opinion on 50 odd years of Tory hedgemony ? You do know that Wales gets its funding from London yes ?

Thesunisanorange · 03/06/2024 20:14

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 15:11

Women have suffered due to Tory policies for many years. Have you been in a prison recently ( and I’m not talking about the presence of trans women there) ?
Have you heard of cuts to benefits ? It’s becoming increasingly difficult to get pip. Have you seen the state of maternity services ? Women killed by men because of not enough policemen. Surestarts shut as well as libraries. I’d agree with you if everything was fecking hunky dory but it isn’t.

Hear hear!

EasternStandard · 03/06/2024 20:14

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:12

@EasternStandard what’s your opinion on the Tories economic record ? Not expecting any kind of interesting comment just bland platitudes . I actually doubt you even live here such is your apparent disinterest in any other UK political issue apart from the culture war 😂

Whatever

You obviously follow my posts closely but your stalking is amiss

Try harder

Laughing emoji back at you

Abeona · 03/06/2024 20:12

C'mon Rosa, why have you gone so quiet about Wales? 25 years of Labour government there and it's a disaster. Total control over education and health/ NHS and both every bit as bad or worse than England.

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Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:12

@EasternStandard what’s your opinion on the Tories economic record ? Not expecting any kind of interesting comment just bland platitudes . I actually doubt you even live here such is your apparent disinterest in any other UK political issue apart from the culture war 😂

Rosaluxemberg · 03/06/2024 20:08

@FigRollsAlly bollocks. Most of us that intend to vote Labour are well aware that the Tories could still win especially when there are so many ‘life long’ Labour voters suddenly changing the habit of a lifetime and opting for the Conservatives because of gender ideology (which incidentally isn’t in the top ten of issues for most pragmatic voters). And obviously you’ve got the shy tories too. Wouldn’t be surprised if Farridge did a deal with them so pat yourselves on the back for supporting that moron, such is the total lack of integrity on the part of the tories.

EasternStandard · 03/06/2024 20:03

Headstarttohappiness · 03/06/2024 19:42

Because they don’t give a damn about women. Badinoch on Today was so obviously just out to gather whatever votes they can. Absolutely cynical move.

They cannot be trusted to follow through on this. They have had years to sort this out…and have failed on this and education NHS, economy.
I hope no one falls for this blatant move.

You prefer Labour on this then

Have you noticed their gender proposals?

HermioneWeasley · 03/06/2024 19:57

How can Labour think there are enough safeguards when Adams vs ERCC has just happened - a MAN was running a rape crisis centre and providing counselling

Headstarttohappiness · 03/06/2024 19:42

Crouton19 · 03/06/2024 14:23

Fuming at Sunak for saving this up his sleeve for election points instead of getting on with it 6 months ago. Now women's rights are being weaponised in a dirty campaign. I am so sick of them.

Because they don’t give a damn about women. Badinoch on Today was so obviously just out to gather whatever votes they can. Absolutely cynical move.

They cannot be trusted to follow through on this. They have had years to sort this out…and have failed on this and education NHS, economy.
I hope no one falls for this blatant move.

FigRollsAlly · 03/06/2024 19:32

Arrogant tossers. So careful when interviewed to say they’re not taking a win for granted but this tells you that they are doing exactly that. They’ve decided they don’t need our votes because they feel safe in carrying on as before.

fashionqueen0123 · 03/06/2024 18:47

Abeona · 03/06/2024 11:06

Apparently women already have enough protection. Try telling that to the women who were left to deal with man in the women's loos in my local M&S the other day. He wouldn't leave until one of them phoned the police. There needs to be an absolutely clear 'no men in women's single-sex spaces' law. Any grey area leaves predatory men space to manouevre.

http://archive.today/1YofY

Ugh. What was he doing just hanging about? As if he was long enough there to wait for someone to make a phone call he can’t have just been using the loo!