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Original poster

Ask your general election candidates what a woman is: results

109 replies

generalelectionfish · 01/06/2024 09:58

I have decided to ask all major parties in my constituency how they define a woman, particularly with regard to women in sport and prisons.

My constituency (currently, subject to borders changing) is Aylesbury Vale.

Conservative: Rob Butler - no reply. This doesn't surprise me because he's a useless tosser who only ever turns up to stuff being opened and has never answered a single email I have sent.

Labour: Laura Kyrke-Smith - replied! She says, "I define a woman as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as a woman.
This piece by Annelise Dodds is a good summary of where Labour stands on trans rights more broadly."

Weasel words in my opinion, but useful to know where she stands. We are a (ugh) Tory safe seat here, but if anyone can challenge it, it would only be Labour.

Anyone else have any assurances or otherwise from their local candidates - and where are you (if you are happy saying)?

Labour will lead on reform of transgender rights – and we won’t take lectures from the Tories | Anneliese Dodds

We will modernise, simplify and reform gender recognition law. Our policies won’t please everyone but we will do what’s right

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories

OP posts:
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8
Original poster
generalelectionfish · 10/06/2024 11:46

Just realised we have two candidates called Greg Smith. One Tory and one Green. That's fun.

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 10/06/2024 10:18

(Floating voter...voted several different parties in the past)

BlackeyedSusan · 10/06/2024 10:17

generalelectionfish · 10/06/2024 10:05

Damnit, the sodding Tories (Greg Smith) have replied. Fucking fuck. I can't vote Tory, but the only unequivocal answer (apart from the changing sex bit... because, you know, actually impossible) so far:

A woman is an adult human female.

I am very clear that women’s rights must be protected, for example maintaining a safe space for biological women’s refuges and places like public toilets. It is totally wrong for biological men identifying as women to be allowed to compete in singe sex sports and this should be stopped.

My conservatism is based on a fundamental belief in freedom, so adults choosing to change sex can be free to do so, but that must not and must never undermine biological women’s rights to safe spaces.

Depends what your individual priorities are. What could be put right easily after either administration (Labour or Conservative) What would be set in stone. What could you mitigate?(Eg you might be able to fund food banks, go private for health care to remove one person from the system, donate to X,y,or z...) There was talk around Brexit of the "hair on fire" analogy....is women's rights your hair on fire thing or is it something else.

Labour are claiming they will follow the Tory budget so I am not sure what fucking use they would be anyway. Are they going to make enough of a change in your priority thing to make it worth voting for?

BlackeyedSusan · 10/06/2024 10:11

generalelectionfish · 03/06/2024 12:59

I have replied to her, expressing the fact that I'm coming from it from a safeguarding perspective, and trying to show how it's impossible to separate out people intending to do harm from genuinely innocent people if you take everyone at their word.

I also wrote about how it's fine to believe that a sense of gender is innate - but it's just that, a belief. But belief is an ideology and not really something you can build a law around. And if we all agree that stereotypes are harmful, how do you define a woman without using stereotypes (other than by biology)?

I'm not expecting a reply. I expect she thinks that I'm a raging transphobe.

I have voted Labour all my life, and whilst I still can't bring myself to vote Tory (having seen what they've done to education, how the corruption is so blatant and unrepentant)... but I really don't know who I will vote for now, as I can't in good faith vote for a candidate who believes the exact opposite to me on one of my most important election criteria.

Ah but you could tell them you can't vote Labour and are considering the other candidates...

Original poster
generalelectionfish · 10/06/2024 10:05

Damnit, the sodding Tories (Greg Smith) have replied. Fucking fuck. I can't vote Tory, but the only unequivocal answer (apart from the changing sex bit... because, you know, actually impossible) so far:

A woman is an adult human female.

I am very clear that women’s rights must be protected, for example maintaining a safe space for biological women’s refuges and places like public toilets. It is totally wrong for biological men identifying as women to be allowed to compete in singe sex sports and this should be stopped.

My conservatism is based on a fundamental belief in freedom, so adults choosing to change sex can be free to do so, but that must not and must never undermine biological women’s rights to safe spaces.

OP posts:
NoBinturongsHereMate · 10/06/2024 09:19

The Liberal Democrats are committed to fighting for both gender equality and equality for all LGBT+ people.

Gender equality. Not sex equality.

Ramblingnamechanger · 10/06/2024 09:14

The question needs to be more specific. Ie Will you repeal the Gender Recognition Act and get rid of the GRC? Will you ensure that no man of whatever identity will be placed in a women’s prison? Or does everyone have the right to ask for same sex carers ? Or why do you think legislation based on how someone feels is a good thing? How can you ensure pregnant women are protected from discrimination at work?

Original poster
generalelectionfish · 10/06/2024 08:38

I got a reply (less than 12 hours after emailing!) from Liberal Democrat candidate Anja Shaefer. A little more positive, perhaps, but not particularly explicit in terms of definitions - lots of theory without practical examples of what would happen, and lots of telling me what the current situation is (which of course I already know). Here's her reply.

The Liberal Democrats are committed to fighting for both gender equality and equality for all LGBT+ people. We believe in the safety, dignity and wellbeing of every individual.

For most people, their gender matches their physical sex at birth, but there is a relatively small number of people – less than 1% of the population – for whom that is not the case, and I believe we must respect their identities too.
The Equality Act already protects single-sex spaces. It has specific exceptions to allow women’s services to exclude men, and in certain circumstances to exclude trans women as well where that’s necessary. For example, a women’s refuge or a group counselling session for female victims of sexual assault could decide to exclude trans women if necessary for their services to function properly.

These are often very difficult and sensitive decisions for service providers to make. In many cases we’re talking about women – trans or not – who’ve been the victims of sexual assault or domestic abuse at the hands of men. Making sure all women get the support they need, and that they can feel safe, is critically important.

I support my Lib Dem colleagues in calling for clearer guidance for individuals and organisations on how the Equality Act exemptions apply to them – but that doesn’t mean changing the Act itself to remove protections for trans women.
The Equality Act has been working well for over a decade. It protects hard-won women's rights, and there is no case for unpicking it now.
I hope this answers your question.

OP posts:
yoteyak · 04/06/2024 19:00

Mermoose · 01/06/2024 10:04

"someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as a woman." What a muddled phrase. One of the things that continually amazes me about gender identity ideology is the complete lack of thought given to it by its proponents. People too lazy to listen carefully to their own words.

Indeed. And worse than "muddled", even. The proposed definition is viciously circular: "I define a woman as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as a woman".

Fill in the second use of 'woman' there with its definition: "I define a woman as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as a woman".

And continue ... "I define a woman as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as ...".

... As what, ffs? A woman? But what is the definition of 'a woman'? -- And off we go again ... Aargh!

Does this person Laura Kyrke-Smith really not see the absurd empty futility of her (non-) answer? Is she really so stupid? And does she really think she's a suitable candidate for election to Parliament? Really?

EdithStourton · 04/06/2024 10:48

Labour, on the doorstep: Well, a woman is someone with female attributes, genitalia, of course, and um, also there are some people who identify as women...
Me: So what about prisons?
Labour: I'm sure you're familiar with that case in Scotland, I can't remember the name...
Me: <Mutes 'Pink Leggings Rapey Man'> Isla Bryson, formerly Adam Graham.
Labour: Ah, yes, that's the one. Well, that would never happen under Labour, we will have blah blah policies blah SNP blah...
Me: Women's sports?
Labour: Well, obviously some sporting bodies are coming to their own decisions but that does seem to be one for case by case decisions.
Me: So is it fair that my niece who does MMA should face someone who has gone through male puberty and enjoys the stronger bones and continuing additional muscle strength that goes with being a bloke?
Labour: Well, ah, as you say,
Me: Look, some sports, it doesn't matter. Anything equestrian, it's the horse and your rapport with it. Stuff like MMA, it's a bit different.
Labour: <Look on face indicating he has never been near a horse> Wurfle case by case blah blah. Anyway, wonderful to speak to you! <aims self up street>
Me: Yeah, the second thing I wanted to ask you about...

Writing it down has made me realise how much vaguely-well-intentioned-but-clueless flannel there was. And that they had noticed N Sturgeon's fall from grace, and what might have given her a bit of a push.

Original poster
generalelectionfish · 04/06/2024 10:16

rockstarshoes · 03/06/2024 23:08

So I'm in the same Constituency & I'm going to vote tactically to get Rob Butler out!

Have you written to Steve Lambert? He was a Counsellor for my neck of the woods & he was great, did loads for the community.

It's so hard though, isn't it? Having potentially to hold my nose and vote for a woman whose views absolutely oppose mine... just to get out the useless Tory twats who've been in their safe seat for literally 100 years.

Steven Lambert unfortunately doesn't represent my part of the constituency, but he seems like a good guy.

OP posts:
PoppySeedBagelRedux · 04/06/2024 05:13

I spotted our Labour candidate at the station yesterday and I gave him a piece of my mind about misogyny in the Labour Party. He told me he agreed with me and that Labour hadn't done enough to support Rosie Duffield. I doubt he'll get in, mind.

In a quandary over whether to vote for him, as I've never voted Tory but I still don't trust Starmer because of the way he continues to treat Rosie.

ShrinkingEveryDay · 03/06/2024 23:11

I haven’t asked because knowing what a woman is doesn’t mean you give a fuck about them 🤷‍♀️

rockstarshoes · 03/06/2024 23:08

So I'm in the same Constituency & I'm going to vote tactically to get Rob Butler out!

Have you written to Steve Lambert? He was a Counsellor for my neck of the woods & he was great, did loads for the community.

CandiedPrincess · 03/06/2024 13:23

I will pose the question.

I can't ask Labour at present as they've not published an email address but I am hunting it down. Interesting the candidate is part of the Labour Women's Network and they've also arranged some local women-only campaign meetings so she should have an opinion on this.

Original poster
generalelectionfish · 03/06/2024 12:59

I have replied to her, expressing the fact that I'm coming from it from a safeguarding perspective, and trying to show how it's impossible to separate out people intending to do harm from genuinely innocent people if you take everyone at their word.

I also wrote about how it's fine to believe that a sense of gender is innate - but it's just that, a belief. But belief is an ideology and not really something you can build a law around. And if we all agree that stereotypes are harmful, how do you define a woman without using stereotypes (other than by biology)?

I'm not expecting a reply. I expect she thinks that I'm a raging transphobe.

I have voted Labour all my life, and whilst I still can't bring myself to vote Tory (having seen what they've done to education, how the corruption is so blatant and unrepentant)... but I really don't know who I will vote for now, as I can't in good faith vote for a candidate who believes the exact opposite to me on one of my most important election criteria.

OP posts:
RobinEllacotStrike · 03/06/2024 08:31

Our Tory MP has been very supportive & has previously passed my concerns onto Kemi Badendoch & she replied (a few years ago now).

I keep asking our Labour candidate questions on Twitter which he ignores. I will email him this week.

We've been Tory safe seat for years but it's looking marginal now so pressing questions are important.

misscockerspaniel · 03/06/2024 06:25

Have just seen a separate thread...will go back to bed

Persianpuss · 03/06/2024 06:02

I would reply with a list of all of the worst transwomen offenders eg Karen White, Isla Bryson and check that she means that they are women. If so, I assume she thinks they should be in female prisons/toilets/rape centres etc

Runor · 03/06/2024 05:53

Oh interesting, the reply from my Labour candidate was almost word-for-word, including having outsourced his thinking to Dodds. Maybe this is the centrally approved line? With the added benefit that the thought police only have to manage one person 🙄

SinnerBoy · 03/06/2024 02:52

YellowHairband · 01/06/2024 12:59

One of my candidates is Helen Belcher so I think the question may be slightly moot there.

Oh dear!

teawamutu · 02/06/2024 22:53

NoBinturongsHereMate · 02/06/2024 16:14

Labour: Laura Kyrke-Smith - replied! She says, "I define a woman as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as a woman.
This piece by Annelise Dodds is a good summary of where Labour stands on trans rights more broadly."

Quite apart from the nonsense definition, you asked her about women and she's sent you information about trans rights. Not about women's rights.

Good to know their priorities.

Edited

Do reply and point that out to her! Plus the Isla Bryson question.

I'm waiting on a reply from my Labour candidate. Been a week now.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 02/06/2024 16:14

Labour: Laura Kyrke-Smith - replied! She says, "I define a woman as someone who has female sex at birth or defines herself as a woman.
This piece by Annelise Dodds is a good summary of where Labour stands on trans rights more broadly."

Quite apart from the nonsense definition, you asked her about women and she's sent you information about trans rights. Not about women's rights.

Good to know their priorities.

Labour will lead on reform of transgender rights – and we won’t take lectures from the Tories | Anneliese Dodds

We will modernise, simplify and reform gender recognition law. Our policies won’t please everyone but we will do what’s right

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories