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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Inaccurate BBC story - Trans identified male

253 replies

WineIsMyCarb · 01/06/2024 07:14

Bbc Sussex has described trans identified male murderer as 'woman' throughout story, with no reference at all to his sex or trans identity.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp00de3r3qro

If you wish to complain about this inaccurate reporting of a male's violent crime, the bbc's complaints link is here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

Andrew Rowland-Stuart, who died at his home on 27 May, smiling, wearing a grey t-shirt and grey waistcoat

Brighton: Woman, 70, in court over husband's death

Emergency services were called to a flat where the victim was pronounced dead, police say.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp00de3r3qro

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
mrshoho · 17/06/2024 17:00

frazzled1 · 17/06/2024 16:50

Complained (kept it brief).

Just got this non-response:

Thank you for getting in touch about our article reporting that Joanna Rowland-Stuart has been arrested and charged with murder.

We have published two articles about the case, both of which have accurately reported the information put into the public domain by the authorities during court proceedings, and will continue to report on the case as it develops.

All feedback from readers is appreciated and shared with senior editors so that they are aware of audience concerns, so thank you again for contacting us to make your views known.

Will email Tim Davie as pp suggested.

I got the same response. Disappointing and disingenuous although I do see their point they are reporting on the facts disclosed by the authorities. There was me thinking the BBC used world class investigative news journalists. Evidently not. What is the point of the bbc these days?

Cheermonger · 17/06/2024 16:59

I got that too - exactly the same

frazzled1 · 17/06/2024 16:50

Complained (kept it brief).

Just got this non-response:

Thank you for getting in touch about our article reporting that Joanna Rowland-Stuart has been arrested and charged with murder.

We have published two articles about the case, both of which have accurately reported the information put into the public domain by the authorities during court proceedings, and will continue to report on the case as it develops.

All feedback from readers is appreciated and shared with senior editors so that they are aware of audience concerns, so thank you again for contacting us to make your views known.

Will email Tim Davie as pp suggested.

TangoTarantella · 02/06/2024 12:03

Have complained to bbc. Thanks for posting OP.

AnCùDubh · 02/06/2024 11:49

journalists are supposed to fact check

You can only fact check up to a certain point though.
Journalists have sources - In general police would be considered a reliable and credible source.

OldCrone · 02/06/2024 11:47

MrsTomRipley · 01/06/2024 09:51

I think we need to complain directly to Tim Davie - remember at the select committee he said he was totally unaware of any complaints around this issue liar

Here's the email for Tim Davie, director general of the BBC.
[email protected]

This is an earlier thread about him giving evidence to the committee where he said he'd only had a handful of emails despite thousands of people complaining via the official BBC complaints route.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5032517-5032517-tim-davie-bbc-giving-evidence-to-culture-media-and-sports-committee

mrshoho · 02/06/2024 09:50

Sorry OP I just re read your update and you've already mentioned the police!

mrshoho · 02/06/2024 09:49

https://www.sussex.police.uk/news/sussex/news/witness-appeals/70-year-old-charged-with-murder-in-brighton/

We can also complain to Sussex police for this inaccurate report. It is so offensive to read this.

WineIsMyCarb · 01/06/2024 21:18

Hi @yetanotherusernameAgain
Perfectly reasonable of you to check. In this case, yes I did. In the same line of work as me and the story was shared, with fact-based context, through personal knowledge, on a group WhatsApp.

Thanks to all who complained. I also complained to the police news site, which was not fact-based either.

PP is quits right that bbc will have lifted wholesale from police website, but journalists are supposed to fact check. Particularly the national broadcaster.

OP posts:
GoogleWhacking · 01/06/2024 19:22

Complained. Thanks

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 01/06/2024 18:03

I said that by saying "woman" the BBC were implying female, and they had failed to point out that the accused was male. Which is inaccurate and misleading.

What I didn't say - and perhaps should have done - is that these violent crimes are very rarely committed by women so the BBC are sensationalising the crime by attributing it to a woman.

I don't think the trans identity is relevant either way (well, except that the Brighton LGBT community might have some reflection to do about who they trust to advocate for them )

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 01/06/2024 17:15

FlirtsWithRhinos · 01/06/2024 15:11

You have to wonder, how do the true believers, the ones who say "but women commit violence as well" and genuinely believe male and female rates of violence are about the same, feel when they see yet another of the comparatively small population of trans women has committed a violent or sexual crime?

Do they think it's just bad luck that some usually very rare events happen to have happened unusually frequently?

Will there ever be a realisation that the reason this seems to keep on happening isn't bad luck, but because trans women are men who commit violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as other men?

The realisation will be a long time coming because as far as I understand it there are no statistics being kept to enable comparison of rates of violence between male, female and transgender male.

TWETMIRF · 01/06/2024 17:03

FlirtsWithRhinos · 01/06/2024 15:11

You have to wonder, how do the true believers, the ones who say "but women commit violence as well" and genuinely believe male and female rates of violence are about the same, feel when they see yet another of the comparatively small population of trans women has committed a violent or sexual crime?

Do they think it's just bad luck that some usually very rare events happen to have happened unusually frequently?

Will there ever be a realisation that the reason this seems to keep on happening isn't bad luck, but because trans women are men who commit violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as other men?

It's generally excused by saying the poor, delicate flower was suffering from so much transphobia that it was an understandable reaction. This applies in all cases including ones where even Mr Magoo can clearly see there was no provocation

FrancescaContini · 01/06/2024 15:13

🤬

FlirtsWithRhinos · 01/06/2024 15:11

You have to wonder, how do the true believers, the ones who say "but women commit violence as well" and genuinely believe male and female rates of violence are about the same, feel when they see yet another of the comparatively small population of trans women has committed a violent or sexual crime?

Do they think it's just bad luck that some usually very rare events happen to have happened unusually frequently?

Will there ever be a realisation that the reason this seems to keep on happening isn't bad luck, but because trans women are men who commit violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as other men?

FranticFrankie · 01/06/2024 14:01

Reported
Again
same old 💩different day

knittin · 01/06/2024 13:37

When Joanna is sentenced will the BBC report that a “woman” has been sent to a male prison?

Apollo441 · 01/06/2024 13:36

Jotajil

And in court, imagine a woman victim of rape committed by a man who identifies as a woman, having to relive the ordeal by answering intimate questions, for example about whether her attacker referred to as 'she', inserted 'her' penis. She has to answer that yes 'she' inserted 'her' penis. She will be asked to respect the stated identity of her male attacker. This has happened. Unbelievable!

I believe the bench guidebook has changed and victims are now allowed to refer to the accused as they perceive them.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 01/06/2024 13:26

I complained. Bit annoyed that you have to put your phone number as well as email address even if you select don't want a response. What's that about?

Catiette · 01/06/2024 13:12

Oops. Double-posted. Unsure how.

jotajil · 01/06/2024 13:11

In reply to OldCrone · Today 07:34
'The Daily Mail seems to be the only paper covering this story which mentions that this 'woman' is actually a man.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13480347/Trans-woman-70-appears-court-accused-murdering-husband-samurai-sword.html

I believe “Trans woman” is also misleading and confusing. It contains the word woman because and is either not understood or misunderstood by a lot of people.

It is terrible that this dreadful crime will be included in statistics as a crime committed by a female, and there have been quite a few lately. Even the police, while appealing for witnesses, seem to describe the alleged offenders as 'women' when they are men identifying as women. So, for example, if the police say the suspect is a woman but a witness says she saw a man attacking a woman, then would the witness's testimony be discounted because the police were looking for 'a woman'?🤔

And in court, imagine a woman victim of rape committed by a man who identifies as a woman, having to relive the ordeal by answering intimate questions, for example about whether her attacker referred to as 'she', inserted 'her' penis. She has to answer that yes 'she' inserted 'her' penis. She will be asked to respect the stated identity of her male attacker. This has happened. Unbelievable!

And the final insult to women: when the perpetrator is sent to prison he can request to go to a women's prison!

There are also other considerations which I won't go into here.

I will just say I am very sorry for the victim of this attack and for his family. He looks like a nice guy.

Trans woman appears in court accused of murdering husband with sword

Joanna Rowland-Stuart is accused of murdering her husband at their Brighton flat earlier this week. Andrew Rowland-Stuart, also 70, is believed to have been murdered by a samurai sword.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13480347/Trans-woman-70-appears-court-accused-murdering-husband-samurai-sword.html

Catiette · 01/06/2024 13:11

Edited to reply to both of the above.

@JellySaurus - don't I know it!

One of things that upset me writing the above was fully recognising that, in all my (probably perceived as in some way bigotted) emails, I'm actually STILL making strategic concessions: anticipating they may dismiss anything else as 'phobic' or ill-intentioned, I offer the olive branch of transwomen (and am prepared to do so in my own daily life, though I'm increasingly reluctant to do the same with pronouns almost entirely BECAUSE of the liberties the BBC & police etc. have taken - nice work, both, in hardening my natural left-wing tolerance into cynical wariness). Like pronouns, transwomen itself is still potentially offensive and materially damaging to so many women and our rights. It's in itself an an indication of our collective generosity in letting it become mainstream in the first place - because now, we belatedly realise, it was a linguistic step towards giving up our spaces and our very name.

Ironies pile on ironies pile on ironies in this debate.

@OpusGiemuJavlo - yup.

You'll see I use both in the above. Couldn't decide between strategic use of the term they approve and I DO find personally offensive - the space - or the term I choose to accept without it, itself a generous concession in the current context.

The worst of all these ironies is: I think the BBC has been second only to these fora in peaking me - its readiness to lie to the population at women's expense, and then defend doing so publicly as an implied moral good, has terrifed and infuriated me in equal measure.

Catiette · 01/06/2024 13:07

Don't I know it!

One of things that upset me writing the above was fully recognising that, in all my (probably perceived as in some way bigotted) emails, I'm actually STILL making strategic concessions: anticipating they may dismiss anything else as 'phobic' or ill-intentioned, I offer the olive branch of transwomen (and am prepared to do so in my own daily life, though I'm increasingly reluctant to do the same with pronouns almost entirely BECAUSE of the liberties the BBC & police etc. have taken - nice work, both, in hardening my natural left-wing tolerance into cynical wariness). Like pronouns, transwomen itself is still potentially offensive and materially damaging to so many women and our rights. It's in itself an an indication of our collective generosity in letting it become mainstream in the first place - because now, we belatedly realise, it was a linguistic step towards giving up our spaces and our very name.

Ironies pile on ironies pile on ironies in this debate.

OpusGiemuJavlo · 01/06/2024 13:03

Using the word "transwoman" is a political statement that is short of total capitulation to the TRA cause. They want you to write "trans woman" as two separate words because this is required by TWAW beliefs, whereas "transwoman" implies TWANRW. So even speaking the unspoken truth that this perpetrator is trans requires a decision about whether to put the space in the middle.

JellySaurus · 01/06/2024 12:57

There is nothing impartial, unambiguous, precise or accurate about the term 'transwoman'.

But it is at least more honest than using the term 'woman' to describe a male person.