Diane Abbott to be banned from standing for Labour

@Grammarnut, thank you.
I had not been in your position so it is interesting to learn that it is something people actually argue. It is clearly absurd.
I confess, I am a little surprised to hear that you have never encountered anti-black racism. It does illustrate how we can be in our own bubbles. As I mentioned, anti-Jewish racism was something I had not really encountered in the UK, other that examples similar to the one you cite. It shows perhaps that we can all be caught up in our own bubbles.

My understanding is that she has poorly controlled diabetes. Which can affect cognitive function. But I could not tell you where I heard it.

I was a teacher. I have heard black school children say that they cannot be racist because they are black, whilst making a racist comment or accusing a white teacher of being racist for e.g. telling them to get on with their work (on a computer) and not surf the internet.

Just now racism against Jews in the UK is at a height because of the war in Gaza. I support a separate Palestinian state (unlike Hamas) but I have just viewed Screams Before Silence, which is a harrowing film about what happened to women on 7th Oct in Israel. Abbott's 'mistake' was to assume that racism against black people (something I have not come across for over 20 years, but I certainly remember racism against Indian and mixed race people) was worse than anything experienced by e.g. Jews, Irish travellers etc. Publicising this view, particularly in reference to Jews, was not the act of an astute politician in a Europe that is full of holocaust deniers. I would not want her for my MP however good she is at constituency level, because I do not think she would treat me impartially - I fear that I might be the colour.

As An Irish person I thought her letter was quite unexceptional. There are certainly bigots who are prejudiced against us and against Jewish people. But it is much easier to discriminate against those who look quite different to white Europeans. This is merely a statement of the bleeding obvious.

Having said that I've never been a big fan, though I lived in her seat for 5 years. I didn't attend a private school and neither did my kids. As Kenan Malik says Class is the axis of inequality. The elephant in the room . But Labour have treated her shabbily. They could have told her in February. I suspect they were terrified she'd run as an Independent.

It would be weird if they lost safe seats in Islington and Hackney. They'll just have to grovel a bit harder out in Tory shires I suppose. 50 ways to lose your voter.

My ex's friend witnessed West Indian-African hostility. She was out shopping with a Nigerian male friend - they were about to pull into a parking space when another car screeched in, nearly hitting them.

The Nigerian got out and remonstrated with the driver - another black man - who started shouting words to the effect "Fuck off African - go back home!".

The Nigerian told him to get out of the car and fight but the other just stayed in his car shouting abuse. In the end the Nigerian said "Why am I wasting my time with you? My grandfather sold yours for a pouch of tobacco".

Boom! Headshot.

Incidentally, the trope that black people cannot be racist is one that seems to be cited more than exist. It is like when Covid-conspiracy people claim no-one acknowledges side effects now matter how much they are acknowledged. Indeed, when it does seem to be used, it is when claim Suella Braverman nor Priti Patel can be racist against black Africans or Muslims.

@Littlepinkstarsbyradish, As a good looking, white American, anglo-saxon Protestant, Regan never considered discrimination important. Until it was against B-list actors, at which point it was outrageous. Once it was a against a group he was not in, it was fine again.
I think Diane Abbott is similar, except as a black, working class woman, she has faced lots of discrimination and ends up on the left rather than the right.

@Littlepinkstarsbyradish, As a good looking, white American, anglo-saxon Protestant, Regan never considered discrimination important. Until it was against B-list actors, at which point it was outrageous. Once it was a against a group he was not in, it was fine again.
I think Diane Abbott is similar, except as a black, working class woman, she has faced lots of discrimination and ends up on the left rather than the right.

That is an interesting post, as it opens to where I have a blind spot.
Diane Abbott's original letter compares the racism faced by communities. Notably, she also suggests that racism again black people has a certainty not faced by Muslims, travellers nor Jews. That what offended people was not the anti-Muslim nor anti-traveller but the anti-semitic part.
I grew up in a town with very few Jewish people, so was rather oblivious. When I first met Jewish people, they were upper middle class so their definition of anti-semitism still presumed a social status that I could not aspire to.
I write this as an apology as I am sure that it must seem strange at best that I could not witness serious anti-semitism in the UK. Even when I was in a relationship with a Jewish person, they were American and were not aware of anti-semitism in the UK.
I have heard anti-semitism from Muslims on occasion (though far rarer than to be common). That said, I use the analogy that a white American, Australian and Brit will all see more anti-black racism in each others country than their own.
When I am told that the racism Jewish people face in the UK is far worse that Muslims, travellers, black people or even that faced by Northern Ireland Catholics, I find it strange that it is such a blind spot.

There does seem to be a very curious standard that Diane Abbott is held to, that others simply aren't.

I think her letter was antisemitic (as it was found to be), and the investigation was justified. I also believe that a lifetime of experiencing racism based on the colour of her skin could well skew her definition of racism, and lead her to diminish the racism that jewish people, roma or travellers face because they can "pass as white" in day to day life (i don't agree that this is the case, because it demonstrably isn't!)
But when we look at the job she has done for her constituency, that she is re-elected time and time again it is simply outrageous to suggest that this decision is reasonable. She should be allowed to stand unless she believed she's unable, and nothing she has said has given me the impression that she wants to step down.

A lot of people on here has said that Diane Abbott is Ill or seems Ill. What have people heard is actually wrong? I haven’t heard this before.

I do understand what you are saying, but what did for Corbyn for better or worse was that the PLP did not want him as a leader, and many refused to be part of his shadow cabinet. Membership went up to 500,000 people, but many of those were not that interested in Labour and were just Corbyn fanboys/girls who joined on the £3 entry fee weren't even interested enough to renew their membership the following year. Even if they were all dedicated to Labour politics, party members are not the electorate, as we've seen from.the disaster of the 2019 election for Labour, and the absolute morons Conservative party members have imposed on us. It's fine if you want to be an ideological pressure group but if you want to implement change then you need to get elected and have a cabinet that will work together to implement those policies and have enough backbenchers to support you. That's the way our system works.

I hate Starmer, to be quite fair, he's no pinker than Blair. Not sure I am Corbynite left. I am a Bennite socialist. Re-nationalisation of utilities and railways, repeal anti-TU legislation, and currently re-nationalise the Royal Mail (the Czech gent's guarantees on universal service obligation etc are only short term), extend public service obligation to all carriers.

I know there are some posts querying whether the left are able to influence the leadership or somehow able to take over control and as a member (unhappily one right now) I can say there is no way that can happen at this point. And the situation with Abbott is just one sign of that as they feel able to treat her any way they want. Admittedly I am from the left of the party and could be considered biased so take anything I say on that basis.

Firstly the process for choosing candidates is utterly in control of the leadership - numerous constituencies will have had people imposed on them with no debate and no vote. Its happened in my area and constituencies around us. The rules around who can stand as leader, debates around policy, even what you are allowed to discuss and how disciplinary processes work are weighted against whoever the leadership wants to exclude from decision making. Membership has dropped massively.

Some people may think that is good if you weren't happy with the previous policy direction, some may think it is bad. But it does show a lack of democracy within the party that impacts on cases like DA where they can act with impunity and it means that where there are policies many disagree with, such as those around women's rights, the avenues to seek change get cut off plus it discourages anyone from speaking out.

Wonky is exactly it. They think it's the 'progressive' line, but it's anything but.

Would that normally be done though for someone who was not seen as being able for health reasons? That might be the sticking point, if she thinks she is up to it, and others think she is too unwell.

Yes, I think that's a fair assessment. I don't think she is a bad person, but her judgement on some of these things seems poor. But, I find that about an adult lot of the left now, the lens they are using to make judgements is just so wonky. Unlike some on FWR, I don't see it as confined to gender ideology. It's something much bigger.

If everyone who believes what I think is stupid shit wasn't allowed to run there would be far fewer candidates! And I'm sure there are others who might think that I believe stupid shit, so...

I also think she's seemed not that well in herself in recent years. I don't understand what has possessed her to say she'll run again, it seems like this is an instance where a friend of family ought to have had a frank but kind conversation with her.

Many Jewish people categorise themselves as a race, and indeed they are right you can do DNA tests to see if you are. It is very dangerous to downplay how they have been treated to the word “ prejudiced” just because their skin colour is white. The Holocaust comes to mind!!! Same for Roma Gypsies. And even if you still think I’m wrong, who on earth does it benefit to compare who gets more hate, all you do is belittle the victims experience and their voice. People can be racist to white people

To be honest she has been an MP for 35 years. The first Black woman MP. She deserves it more than the shower of children/ lovers/ cronies of Boris Johnson and criminals who currently reside there.

It would be a pretty underhand thing to do when Labour are on the brink of government, but the Corbynite Left really do hate Starmer in a quite obsessive way. More than they seem to dislike the Tories. I wonder whether someone from Momentum has tried to cause trouble?

@TempestTost
But she has been indoctrinated with an incoherent belief system on this issue.

Which dovetails quite seamlessly with the belief system that led her, 2 weeks before Russia invaded Ukraine, to claim "that Russia is the aggressor should be taken very sceptically". Indoctrinated at the school of Seamus Milne.

I have no time for her and think she has blind spot about antisemitism, but she should be allowed to stand. Although I don't think she should. She's clearly unwell and her judgement demonstrably questionable.

Diane Abbott is after retirement, that retirement home called the House of Lords.

That's what I heard too. She was supposed to be thanked for her long service and sent off on her retirement. Poor woman really doesn't look well.