Caitlin Moran discusses her absence from the trans debates

CM has always been a gifted, funny, interesting writer. But she has her limitations, one of which is a tendency to generalise from her own experience. When I read excerpts from her book on men, she seemed to be under the illusion that previous feminists had never thought about, let alone written about, male experiences or the harm done to men by socialisation and gendered upbringing. I think you really see that limitation in her take, or lack of it, on the trans issue. Despite her impoverished start in life, she knows she's never going to share a prison cell with a rapist or need to escape from an abusive partner in a domestic violence refuge. So she can afford not to take a stance on the issue.

When I look at women like her, it makes me admire the bravery of JKR all the more.

There is going to have to be a huge swathe of 'Do it to Maya' people pouring out of the circus tent over the next year.

They posted on the wrong thread...not you.

CM has already been clear that she thinks transwomen are women (possibly better women too). She may have changed her mind of course - if so, she's unlikely to get the pushback she's both afraid of and insulated from because Palestine is the fad du jour for them.

Tbh, if everyone had said no at the start instead of indulging it all we'd be in a much better position. It wasn't courage that was needed, it was being an adult.

My issue with CM is that she positions herself as someone who will speak out, but then shuts up on the most contentious issue of them all.

Exactly. That's the annoying part about it - she has built up this persona as a 'tell it like it is, no holds barred' feminist. That's her whole career basically.

Except on this issue, she suddenly has nothing to say...

You are kidding, right? Nick Robinson has been a huge ally. He (and fellow Today-er Justin Webb) is one of the few sane voices on the BBC.

My issue with CM is that she positions herself as someone who will speak out, but then shuts up on the most contentious issue of them all.

I like her writing, she’s very funny and her “How To Be A Woman” was what got me into feminism (having been brought up with the idea that “no-one wants to know a feminist, they’re all man-hating ranters” ). But I feel let down on her silence here.

I don't know, maybe she is going through the menopause from hell as well as challenging family circs that can occur simultaneously.
Maybe all the courage she has is needed elsewhere.

Well is he joining in or is he sitting it out? Why is it on her?

@OriginalUsername2 how is my comment on the wrong thread? It’s about Caitlin Moran’s craven Vichy “feminism”.

I did agree that the vitriol around this subject is much worse because of social media.

Moran has always been an annoying and rather immature performative "feminist " and very much in the "I'm mad me" mould as a PP has observed. I lost patience with her a long time ago. My DD, aged 31, liked her for a while but has outgrown that too.

Credit where credit's due: she's better than Layla Moran.

wrong Thread

This may be true but she can't have it both ways. She's either a feminist commentator (which is the brand she's built) or she's not. If she is, she should comment on this core feminist issue. If she doesn't feel able to do that maybe it's time to carve out a new media niche for herself, as a gardening writer or something.

Talking about this topic openly on a public platform is scary. Your whole career could be ruined for voicing an honest opinion. She's probably just aware that her career will end if she talks about it

She is such a disappointment. A couple of years ago she said only women knew what it was to have periods or have a womb or something and she was attacked by YRAs. She immediately backed down. All that ‘I’m so hard, I’ma kick ass woman’ turned out to be total rubbish

I think she got into hot water ages before all of this as well by using a word that rhymes with granny, as an affectionate term she said because she had lots of TW friends who were fine with it as a sort of jokey term, but then lots of people were "you don't get to"-ing her . So I think she had an early taste of the "cancelling". I could be misremembering though!

I assume a private gender critical position in anyone like Moran who doesn't genuflect twaw to appease the holy gods of Pride.

I don't read her anymore because, while I understand her position is a financially astute one, it rather detracts from the way she initially presented herself. There are plenty of other women to read instead.

I hope in her private life she sticks up for the women in media who are braver than her though.

I really don't think it's helpful to have a go at women who are fairly obviously GC but don't want to incite the wrath of the TRAs. Yes, of course it's cowardly - but everyone has their reasons and their lines, and the right to be a coward if they want to be. Someone who had teenage daughters when this all started was probably in a very difficult position. And it's true she hasn't made enough money to risk never working again.

She’s a hypocrite and a coward who knows dam well we shouldn’t be putting rapists in women’s prisons and stands by and lets better women take the abuse for saying that.

she can fuck off. I won’t give her clicks or buy any of her books again.

She annoys the living crap out of me! Insufferable woman.

🙄🙄🙄

This subject is the most polarised current affairs subject that I've come across.

Most issues agree on the end point, but disagree on how to achieve it, therefore room for people to compromise on a solution. Here there isnt an agreed end point - do we acknowledged and have a right to know an individuals sex or not.

What is the middle ground that's being spoken of?

Genuinely.
Explain what middle ground looks like.

I'll go first.

To me, the middle ground is the JKR position - wear what you want, call yourself what you want, and have sex with whatever consenting and legal age person will have you. But don't demand the rest of us deny biology or our own rights.

That middle ground?