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Original poster

Countries that are truly liberal, safe, and not captured by gender ideology?

65 replies

HelenaRavenclaw · 25/05/2024 19:23

I just listened to Ted Cruz grilling a New York judge to ordered a trans-identifying male serial rapist to be transferred to a women's prison. It seems like there's nowhere we can get the best of both worlds, a place where men are not allowed to legally identify as women and invade women's safe spaces, and where society is progressive and safe for women. The most "progressive" places like California, New York, Canada, Australia, Scandinavia, etc. are captured by gender ideology. England fares slightly better than Scotland, but with Labour likely to be at the helm soon I have little hope for improvement in this regard.

Places that don't pander to gender ideology are unsafe in other respects -- the deep south of America has widespread gun ownership and racism, the middle east's treatment of women is appalling, and so on. Without sacrificing quality of life and healthcare safety standards, is there any "first-world" democratic country, or region of such a country, that is truly good for women?

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 25/05/2024 22:31

anothernamitynamenamechange · 25/05/2024 22:18

Is that liberal in the modern american sense of the word?
Dictionary definition here:
adjective

  1. willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas:
"they have liberal views on divorce"
  1. relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise:
"a liberal democratic state"

Promoting e.g. individual rights doesn't mean gender ideology is somehow inevitable. The problem comes when some individuals "rights" are promoted at the expense of other peoples and when there is complete denial this is the case (e.g. the right of a man to be in a changing room with pre-teen girls versus the rights of those girls).

Its not "liberal democratic" ideas that are the problem per se. Its stupid people and people that don't understand the concept of competing rights.

I agree with you and before gender legislation was brought in in many countries societies could be liberal and not undermined by a harmful ideology

We’ve taken a wrong turn, who will get past it?

Lilacdew · 25/05/2024 22:27

StripedPiggy · 25/05/2024 21:23

That’s a bit like asking for a libertarian low-tax capitalist society which also has strong restrictions on gun ownership and free universal healthcare. A complete oxymoron.

Support for transgender rights is past of the liberal worldview, no different from opposition to racism & homophobia. Liberals don’t pick & choose which (in their view) marginalised minority groups it’s ok to discriminate against. Unless it’s Jews, of course. Because they don’t count.

And women. The only majority treated as a minority.

CranfordScones · 25/05/2024 22:26

By 'truly liberal' you presumably mean 'socially liberal' which is exactly the group most likely to endorse gender ideology. Those who oppose gender ideology tend to be socially conservative (at least to some moderate degree).

anothernamitynamenamechange · 25/05/2024 22:20

As opposed to "those liberals"/"libs of tik-tok" in the sense of how American republicans would characterise everything they dislike about their opposition. What another poster referred to as "the liberal world view".

anothernamitynamenamechange · 25/05/2024 22:18

Is that liberal in the modern american sense of the word?
Dictionary definition here:
adjective

  1. willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas:
"they have liberal views on divorce"
  1. relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise:
"a liberal democratic state"

Promoting e.g. individual rights doesn't mean gender ideology is somehow inevitable. The problem comes when some individuals "rights" are promoted at the expense of other peoples and when there is complete denial this is the case (e.g. the right of a man to be in a changing room with pre-teen girls versus the rights of those girls).

Its not "liberal democratic" ideas that are the problem per se. Its stupid people and people that don't understand the concept of competing rights.

Badgertime · 25/05/2024 22:13

I worked in SE Asia (SK) in the 2000s and back then it was pretty conservative. Very safe though for women and kids and well developed.
I'd imagine Japan was similar.

I don't know how much it has changed now.

There was a lot of racism though and disability prejudice. I wouldn't go back now unless I knew that had changed.

Badgertime · 25/05/2024 22:07

Eurovision should give you a clue.

Runor · 25/05/2024 21:53

StripedPiggy · 25/05/2024 21:23

That’s a bit like asking for a libertarian low-tax capitalist society which also has strong restrictions on gun ownership and free universal healthcare. A complete oxymoron.

Support for transgender rights is past of the liberal worldview, no different from opposition to racism & homophobia. Liberals don’t pick & choose which (in their view) marginalised minority groups it’s ok to discriminate against. Unless it’s Jews, of course. Because they don’t count.

Or women - but of course they’re a majority!

StripedPiggy · 25/05/2024 21:23

That’s a bit like asking for a libertarian low-tax capitalist society which also has strong restrictions on gun ownership and free universal healthcare. A complete oxymoron.

Support for transgender rights is past of the liberal worldview, no different from opposition to racism & homophobia. Liberals don’t pick & choose which (in their view) marginalised minority groups it’s ok to discriminate against. Unless it’s Jews, of course. Because they don’t count.

Original poster
HelenaRavenclaw · 25/05/2024 21:21

Gagagardener · 25/05/2024 21:10

I ask from ignorance: are the Nordic countries (Finland, Iceland as well as Scandinavia) not better in this respect?

It seems like they all have gender self-ID in place, so a man can legally "become" a woman whenever he fancies, without any clinical diagnosis of dysphoria or hormone treatment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_self-identification#Nordic_countries

Sweden passed gender self-ID just last month and lowered the minimum age!
https://apnews.com/article/sweden-vote-legal-gender-law-minimum-age-9cfb3c6879ae03c3187f520eed308377

Gender self-identification - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_self-identification#Nordic_countries

OP posts:
Gagagardener · 25/05/2024 21:10

I ask from ignorance: are the Nordic countries (Finland, Iceland as well as Scandinavia) not better in this respect?

EasternStandard · 25/05/2024 21:08

It’ll take a lot to get past this falsification and harmful ideology

I’d say we were taking steps but that’s likely lost now

It’ll take some time if it ever happens

Where would people pick to be first?

WaverleyOwl · 25/05/2024 21:06

I think you are looking for a post-liberal society. Which might not exist yet.

Original poster
HelenaRavenclaw · 25/05/2024 21:04

Indeed, and in "first world" countries where people don't need to worry as much about real problems like health, food, etc. , they have more time and money to spend on creating and upholding ideological labels and policies...all at the cost of women's safety and dignity.

OP posts:
NotAllowed · 25/05/2024 19:24

What an oxymoron. I don’t know what it will take for the penny to drop with liberals, that liberalism leads to societal decay.