Rape and Hamas and the denial of rape.

You are lying about the West Bank- or maybe it's just wishful thinking because you still desperately claw to the hope that Israel's army isn't the racist violent reality.

Children in the West Bank are arrested and tortured for attending non violent rallies. For having parents involved in politics (not Hamas- any politics). For no reason at all- just so Palestinians remember where they stand.

Children in the West Bank are shot and killed by Israel if they think that the children will throw stones. Never mind that they are throwing them at armoured vehicles, out of total frustration of living a life under oppression and restriction by Israel at every turn.

I know this because I lived there. It happened to my family. It happens to nearly every Palestinian family.

I would still be discussing it if the article was about Israel. As to the rest, the children being arrested in the West Bank are teenagers (think 15 to 19) who are using slingshots - a missile from one of these can kill (remember David and Goliath -it's that sort of weapon). I do not like anyone being mistreated and I do not like the bombing of Gaza, but Hamas and co (ordinary Palestinians) committed atrocities on Oct 7th. The casualties in Gaza are caused by Hamas, not Israel, because Hamas are putting their bases next to refugees from North Gaza, and are aiming weapons at Israel from those positions. Let Hamas come out and fight, wearing uniforms and not using women and children as shields.

Stalker?

I'd like to say though that just because people ask for links or 'evidence' of what they are being told by the media like the original news article, doesn't auto make them deniers. Interrogating information to get to the truth isn't a bad thing.

You've clearly misinterpreted my post on the other thread...stalker. What I said there were actual observations of actual headlines and reports so don't come at me for that 🥱

I've got better things to do than go back and forth with you @Dependabledirt .

Presumably that includes the rape of Palestinian men, women and children.

I believe that Israeli women were sexually assaulted on October 7, that it is repugnant, that those who committed the offences should be prosecuted.

I don't believe that the denial of sexual assault was unique to this situation and it minimises conflicts where similar patterns existed, such as the Congo. It is in fact typical for rape as a weapon of war to be underestimated and minimised. Saying that "it has never happened like this before" is both untrue (and there is evidence posted up thread about this) and minimising to previous victims.

We should be angry.

It's not being ignored because they are Israeli women, it's because they are women. There are credible reports of sexual violence used against both Israeli & Palestinian women, not just in this current escalation but going back decades.

Well you put it better than me. This board is usually very good for that.

This argument falls down because this thread is not about justifying the attacks on Palestine.
So no need for your ‘balance’.

But as your other thread makes clear, where you claim the BBC has a bias against Palestine, and in favor of Ukraine, despite Palestine having pushed Ukraine out of the news for months, you are not about balance but about wanting your particular worldview reflected everywhere.

Yea I am angry at the way the people have denied, minimized and deflected from the appalling barbarity on a Oct 7th. Unapologetically so. It’s completely justified anger. Watching the callousness and dehumanizing of the Israeli victims from ordinary people had really changed my view of humanity. It’s shocked me to my core.
The fact you think my anger about this is a fault does not enhance my view of you.

Shouldn’t we be angry about the rape of women across the globe by men in war and out of it?

Perhaps the voice you're reading it in, in your head, is angry. They are words, no adjectives, emojis or grrrr subtitles.

Ladybird Johnson apparently said no-one can make you feel something without your consent.

Well, the tone does come across as angry so...🤷‍♀️

Hmm I was accused of being an angry person when trying to humanise Israelis on another thread, is this another silencing tactic. Plus ca change.

You sound like a very angry person.

And actually @Dependabledirt I distinctly remember talking to my FIL on Oct 8th and my view point was what happened was awful and supported Israel's decision to retaliate against Hamas. I do not support Hamas.

However, my view point has changed as what's happening cannot be justified with the events of Oct 7th.

I've done a lot more research in that time and get my news from various places none of which are the daily fail.

My support is with innocent civilians in all countries that suffer at the hands of their 'leaders' and yes that includes Israel and Palestine, and I say Palestine because the West Bank has been attacked and children arrested even though it is not Hamas run.

The article is only up for discussion because it's against Hamas. If an article was written in the same way but aimed at Israel, would you be discussing it too?

There is a strand on the left that views everything through a lens of colonial power vs freedom fighters and resistance. Leaving aside the fact that that is a wholly inaccurate reading of Israel's situation, for those people it does not sit comfortably to view Hamas as sadistic rapists attacking young, peaceful festival goers. It is easier to deny/ minimise / downplay the actions of Hamas on 7th Oct (and indeed afterwards) as this does not challenge their view of the situation in that part of the Middle East. See also- all Israelis are white Europeans.

This is not my memory at all. I admit I can’t remember any explicit statement that the girls and young women were being raped, but I certainly don’t remember any denial, and there was a widespread understanding that everyone knew what was happening and why they were taken. I assumed the lack of explicit mention was out of respect for the girls in a culture where shame is wrongly associated with being raped.

This is nothing like Oct 7th where the Hamas fighters worked really hard to make it clear they have systematically raped the women and girls they found, leaving the evidence everywhere, filming themselves, and uploading footage making it clear women had been assaulted and notably not releasing the young women they took from the festival. We all know why.

And still, and STILL people, left wing progressives, have explicitly denied the rapes happening.

There were no mentions of rape till returned girls turned up pregnant after being kidnapped by Boko Haram. Then there was some pretence it was consensual, then finally talk of forced marriage and then rape.

You just can’t hear yourself, can you?

Tell me, were the pro-Palestinian marches organized up in the immediate aftermath of Oct 7th, for ‘balance’ too? Was the ripping down of the posters of hostages for ‘balance’ too?

Most people can hold a conversation about a barbarity committed against a group of people without feeling the need for ‘balance’. Those trying to interject ‘balance’ are inevitably those whose politics have caused them to dehumanize one group of people to such a degree, any talk if their suffering needs to be refocused onto another group of people the speaker has not dehumanized.

Answer this question honestly to yourself, how many times have you been with people talking about the suffering of Palestines and you have interjected to refocus the conversation onto the suffering of Israelies on Oct 7th and its aftermath, for ‘balance.’?

I'm certainly not in denial to what's going on and my posts are trying to balance the view points. It's not just Hamas raping. It's not just Israel setting up propaganda videos.

The initial post was directed at Hamas only, which I don't think is fair when both parties aren't innocent in this big propaganda machine.

I'm inclined to agree. "What proof is there that anyone has denied these rapes and attacks?" people ask. Well, there it is in black and white. In the past I've reported similar comments, now I wonder whether that was a mistake given the denial on here that those comments ever existed.

Screenshot it. Also, I have archived a copy of the page with the comment in question visible.

I'm inclined to agree. "What proof is there that anyone has denied these rapes and attacks?" people ask. Well, there it is in black and white. In the past I've reported similar comments, now I wonder whether that was a mistake given the denial on here that those comments ever existed.

They may even feel that IDF or Hamas killing these women in the crossfire would be the best solution as some men have funny ideas about ‘their women’ being ‘ruined’.

This is a disgraceful thing to say.

Wow. How utterly disgusting. I wonder what other demographic or ethnic group they would say that of?