Advice please: Dreading TRA friend's visit

I am not speaking FOR them, I am saying that I consider them female - which they are. Your logic is lacking. Everybody is male or female. For me, feminism is for females - how someone identifies is irrelevant. It is ridiculous to suggest that I should not include trans men in my feminism because they are men - that is a belief system I do not sign up to. Why would I?

have known enough of them that now re-identify as women to know that they need feminism whether they like it or not

Oh, speaking for all trans men now, just because you know a few of them.
Just like some feminists claim to speak for all women with their "GC" views.
🙄

I might throw in a "don't you think it's sexist that people think personality traits can be male or female?" Don't make any statements, just ask questions!

I include all females, including trans men - I have known enough of them that now re-identify as women to know that they need feminism whether they like it or not.

I'll include all women in my feminism, but trans-men are complicated since they don't count themselves as women, so -meh, i don't need to think about them that much.

I don't need a label. But I'm not getting bent out of shape if anyone uses one. Exception is cis, i don't accept it.

@Brefugee Since I don't agree that anyone who believes TWAW is a feminist, as far as I'm concerned the only words I need for myself in this debate are "woman" and "feminist".

From your description I would say you are a TWERF rather than a TERF (assuming you believe feminism includes women who don't identify as women), but I still think the TWER is redundant.

There's nothing particularly radical about believing that feminism is for and about female people, not male people.

i don't mind TERF i am literally a TW excluding (mostly radical) feminist so i just gloss over it. I am not worried about being called GC because it's pretty self explanatory, it is being anti gender stereotypes for the most part. I like Sex Realist because that hits the spot (but then nobody who is a TRA is going to use that)

The one thing i will not accept is CIS.

but we're digressing, how did it go @BetsyBobbin ?

Well, that's your opinion. In the meantime the rest of us saw and inwardly digested the vile tweets that man sent in respect of JKR and will come to our own opinion. Which is that he is a bully.

I think you’re getting confused

Nope, I'm not. Nice try though.

and I spend a lot of time on FWR

Same bad habit I'm trying to kick but means I know what I've seen.

I think you’re getting confused. Some posters may not consider themselves GC, or may be somewhat frustrated with the phrase having lost its original meaning to become short hand for “believes in biological reality”, but no one considers it a slur so far as I’m aware, and I spend a lot of time on FWR. “TERF” and “cis” are the slurs around here; there’s even a website of long standing called “terfisaslur” documenting the absolute shitloads of abuse and threats women receive - as per the example above - for standing up for our rights. MN agree and if anyone reports your post, it will be deleted for your use of the T word.

Is there an equivalent to this for the term "TRA"?

www.terfisaslur.com

It's a term for gender critical people.
I've seen "can you not say GC please it's dehumanising" on here.
If you don't want people to say the T word either, how are you supposed to describe?!
How about if we're policing words, we start not using the word TRA fto describe absolutely everyone who isn't completely on board with the "gender critical" viewpoint?
It doesn't make you an activist to just simply be someone who is trans and going about their lives in peace, or to be someone who isn't trans but doesn't have a problem being around someone who is, or seeing them in public facing jobs.

Nothing else of concern other than LGBT people existing and doing their own thing?

That stupid acronym again. If TRAs were happy for lesbians to do their own thing, they wouldn’t have shut Jenny Watson’s lesbian speed dating event, they wouldn’t be all over lesbian dating apps and lesbian groups wouldn’t have to stay underground in order to avoid TRAs complaining to their venues when they’re not allowed to join in.

Could you not call people TERFs please. It's a misogynistic slur.

All over the media (far right, anti-trans e.g. Daily Mail) like it or not thanks to being posted by JK Rowling. They don't have much choice when that happens do they.

No. All over the media BEFORE Rowling made the comment. This is a person who has courted media attention - a fact you seem keen on ignoring.

I'm a feminist and caring about women and girls who have been impacted by men behaving badly is a worthy cause. I care when women are raped by men in prisons or are forced to share domestic violence shelters with men.

You don't have to care about women and girls, but I do and I demand politicians care too as I vote as well.

A gender critical person thought Helen Joyce was trans on twitter.

This also leads to an obsession with what sex people are which can disadvantage women, i.e. I have seen on twitter TERFs analyse photos of people trying to determine what sex they are. It's not healthy and reinforces stereotypes of what men and women "should" look like (not everyone meets the stereotype). This could for example mean a masculine looking woman could be mistaken as trans by a gender critical in a locker room for example.

Are trans people really what our politicians should be focusing their attention on? What about other stuff like poor people starving and freezing every winter etc? The cost of living? Nothing else of concern other than LGBT people existing and doing their own thing?

I think you’ll find the conversation is more like:

Rowling: Here's a transwoman football manager*. He's a man.
Everyday people (whether or not considering themselves GC): Yeah, we can see that?
Rowling: He calls himself a woman and is being given credit for achieving as a “woman in a man’s world”.
Everyday people: WTF is that stupidity? Of course he’s a man!

*A football manager is not the same as a football referee. I realise that might be a tricky concept to grasp for someone who thinks a man is the same as a woman, but it’s useful to learn the differences between things.

Everyday people [awkwardly]: We dunno, we don't think about what's between people's legs.

Everyday people are fully aware who the men are and who the women are, or does Christinapple think everyday people are really stupid?

All over the media (far right, anti-trans e.g. Daily Mail) like it or not thanks to being posted by JK Rowling. They don't have much choice when that happens do they.

Can you see how JK Rowling comes across to people who aren't heavily into gender critical beliefs?

Rowling: Here's a trans woman referee. He's a man!
Everyday people (who aren't gender critical): Yeah so what?
Rowling: That means he has a penis. He is a penised person.
Everyday people: Yeah so what?
Rowling: Well all these trans women I post about probably have penises. Don't you think so?
Everyday people [awkwardly]: We dunno, we don't think about what's between people's legs.
Rowling: Look at all these trans women! They're all men and they all have penises! They might run a race with these penises or go to a cubicle in a women's bathroom with their penis or referee a football match they can't do that they're overweight men with penises!
Everyday people: Wow what a creep JK Rowling has became. She has a thing about trans people.
TERFs: JK Rowling is just telling the truth! You're a trans rights activist who doesn't want women to have rights!

Seriously, that's what the whole thing looks like outside of communities like here or twitter. Most people don't have an issue with trans people and think JK Rowling has developed a rather unhealthy obsession.

I think women have to start speaking up about the problems that trans activists and gender ideologies are causing to women and freedom speech. Why are women scared of upsetting TRAs they're certainly not afraid to upset us. We all need to start pointing out the effect this is having on women's rights to dignity safety and privacy and fairness.
i think the best thing is to ask them questions about what they actually mean .
how do you know what a woman feels like? What does trans mean, does that mean there are souls with a gender floating round waiting to jump into a babies body?

I think the Mara Yamauchi thread and interview give the clearest explanation as an answer to why women need women’s sports to go back to being single sex.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that truth doesn't rear it's ugly head then eh?

just a normal everyday non-famous trans woman

...who happens to be an activist, who has campaigned for trans women in womens sports and is all over the media...not just someone who is trying to quietly live their life at all.

"JK is transphobic". You just won yourself a million quid. (apart from the small matter of providing proof to back up that statement-pro tip "that's what I think" is not proof)