Biological sex

a feeling that they are women

And this ‘feeling’ is a man’s fantasises of how it would feel to be a woman, based on their very male perspective, and generally a very sexualised misogynistic male perspective at that.

There is no "changing fully".

I would still feel the same about an impotent man sharing my changing room/refuge/prison/toilet, and I would feel the same about a man who had his penis removed because of cancer or an accident. I STILL wouldn't want him in there, because he is, and remains, a MAN.

The actual penis itself has nothing to do with it. The two examples I gave above do not suddenly make a man into a woman, and neither does willingly having your genitals amputated.
These people are still male. I have no access to the feelings in their heads which make them think they are women - because when you follow this ideology through to its conclusion, that is ALL that there is, a feeling that they are women.

I don't think men should be given access to female spaces based on a feeling. There is not a shred of evidence of any kind that "gender" exists, it is akin to a religious belief.
On the other hand, there is solid evidence that women and girls are at risk of predatory males in their spaces and that allowing ANY man into those spaces will increase that risk.
Again, penis or no, it is irrelevant.

Men of any kind do not belong in spaces created for women only.

The good men stay out - so the bad men stand out.

A woman dressed up to look like a man is not a threat to woman. Men are responsible for sex crimes against women and its their sex that makes them a threat. Its what goes on in a mans head that makes him dangerous, so a woman who looks like a man is fine as she does not have those thought processes and entitlement.

And before you all begin, I'm no guardian journo, just interested in the responses to broaden my understanding

Don't worry OP I'm pretty sure no one would have thought that. A Guardian journalist would never come on here and ask people's opinions, they'd just make it up.

A large proportion of transwomen are also attracted to women. Just mentioning this, as I think OP has a very restricted view of transwomen. So, many of these men have fully functioning penises and a desire for women, and are pushing to be in changing spaces with naked women. What could possibly go wrong?

Grayson Perry is also very open about having AGP.

Nobody is being hateful or 'phobic', even though Grayson makes no bones about wishing to present as and dress like a 'girl' - something that no biologically female-born adult of Grayson's age could be mistaken for - rather than actually as a 'woman'.

At risk of getting deleted again, have you heard of AGP? These are men who get a sexual thrill out of pretending to be a woman. They are classed as transwomen so if you're letting transwomen into women's spaces then you let in the ones who are getting off on it too. Debbie Hayton has admitted to having it but transactivists usually try to cover up the existence of it. That's why I said about getting deleted as talking about it on here seems to be hit and miss depending on who is manning the delete button.

A lot of us do know transpeople, our position doesn't come from ignorance. My neighbour knows that I am gender critical and consider him a man but we get on ok. We chat and he knows that while I could never consider him to be a woman, I don't want him to be harmed or to suffer abuse.

How do you mean 'change fully', though?

Even if you have any part of your genitals/sex-specific organs removed or restyled - whether as a result of medical need or a desire to more closely approximate to a facsimile of what the opposite sex has - you are still inherently male or female.

Presuming that nobody would try to suggest that a woman who had needed an emergency hysterectomy had become a 'man'; nor that a man who had had cancer requiring a penectomy had become a 'woman' - biologically speaking, what is the difference?

We're back to "I am now the opposite sex, because I want to be" - even if some surgery has actually taken place.

It’s not just about the (re) configuration of genitalia.

Rightly it wrongly I do not feel comfortable with people who grew up as boys being able to see my naked body unless I know and trust them.

The male gaze. Women’s bodies as objects of sexual focus… or contempt. The vile slang names men (gay and straight ) use about women’s bodies. This is part of the whole reason women need safe spaces!

Trans women did not grow up with female bodies. They grew up in a male grouping. Patriarchy. Whatever difficulties and discrimination they encountered as Trans people, I do nt feel comfortable naked before people who grew up in a masculine culture.

OK: you can’t generalise, most will be trustworthy, benign, safe.

But when a woman decides to get an Uber rather than walk home alone at night from the station , when a man chooses to meet his DW at the station, they / we are not reacting to the majority Good Guys, but the minority. We can’t take the risk.

Men weaponised sex, exploitation, objectification etc against women. No wonder we need safe spaces.

I'd also like to know why challenging blatant gynophobia is considered 'transphobia'.

The only way this can be true is if the routine actions of the TRAs are inherently and unashamedly gynophobic.

Third spaces that are mixed sex are not the answer as transwomen would not want to use them. They use women’s spaces as it is the women who use the space that is important, not the space itself.

Ah I see this has already been raised

Sex offenders who were castrated were found to be even more violent towards their victims.

The removal of a penis and testicles does not erase male socialisation, or remove male privilege. It does not alter male sexualised thought, although it may remove the main physical means of carrying out those thoughts. A man without a penis is still a man.

And that is precisely the issue actually.

You are spot on that "most men with an ounce of decency" would not change next to a small child (or any female who does not ask them to). And they don't.

But, with self ID, the ones with no decency can do, do do it, probably get some "frisson" while doing it and women cannot by law stop them.

See? You know intuitively what the issue is! 😀

Well summed up.

@fromtheshires I suppose the next logical question would be if they had genital surgery would it be an issue to anyone?

It makes no difference to me at all. I have no way of telling whether a man has had genital surgery, it's none of my business, and I don't want to know.

Ah the lovely Sarah Jane!

I have been faced by a bearded transman in the ladies toilets. Initially my fight or flight started kicking in, but in another second I could see her height, and build, and lack of adam's apple, and female features, and carrying angle, and way of moving, and instantly relaxed as she was obviously a woman. As a woman, she had a right to use the ladies.

Well I for one would not want to be in a dark alley with Sarah Jane Baker.(Probably many men wouldn't either...)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12282337/Who-Sarah-Jane-Baker-Trans-activist-called-TERFs-punched.html

Just saw that @ArabellaScott beat me to this one!

Also, even without genitals, men retain their male-patterned behaviour.

A study into chemically castrated sex offenders in prisons, showed that they continued to commit sex based crimes, but with even more violence than when they were not chemically castrated (think, using implements, viciously, rather than their penis).

Regardless of " support" from trans identified people, it is the most obvious solution, and one which would have wide spread public support - which is what really matters when it comes down to legislation.

You do know there is fetish cult which is predicated on 'nullification' in which the male genitals are castrated; and even men who are AGP go as far as to have their genitals removed.

Men remain men, though, with a male gaze - regardless of genitalia. Single sex spaces are based on biological sex for good reasons, especially for women and girls.

What has " this day and age" got to do with basic sex differences, though? They still exist. We don't have single sex spaces because we're twee and prissy - we have them to preserve and protect women's dignity and privacy.