Sound bites for woke chum

*AppleStrudel23 · Yesterday 17:38

What should I call c m instead?

I think it's best that you come up with something which is not anti-Semitic. I neither know, not care. Please stop asking me, I've demonstrated quite clearly that it IS an aS term.

If you want to know who is influencing this, other than activists believing themselves to be right and being sanctimonious, then it's worth considering all the bot users on social media, echoing sentiments that increase division in society.

These absolutely exist and are generally pushing narratives that sow discontent, stir up social division and their aim is generally to weaken cultures with free elections because these threaten more authoritarian regimes. The biggest weakness of free societies is how much division there is. The people running this bots aren't pro or anti trans, they are just trying to enhance the voices in society that cause the biggest rifts.

Chaos is a ladder.

It should be an easy answer. What's it called then we can carry on talking without detailing the thread?

What should I call cultural Marxism instead?

AppleStrudel23

OK, if you want to be obtuse, let's not continue this and derail the thread.

Broad social movements cannot be explained by one single cause, and particularly not by an intellectual grouping such as the Frankfurt School. It's bad historiography.

You didn't answer my question. What should we call Cultural Marxism then? Because it is real and we can see it linked right back to the Frankfurt school. I personally don't care what's it called, so please tell me what I can call it instead so we don't have to argue about vocabulary and actually discuss the issue at hand.

Yes. But the cogito is not attached to any physical sexuality. There is no male and female mind according to Descartes for example. There may be philosophers who claim that but the intellectual sources they use are grounded in the Frankfurt school which again was my point.

After all it doesn't matter because the material manifestation of these philosophical thoughts lead towards the weakening of nuclear family units and brought on the sexual revolution which can be found again in the thoughts of the Frankfurt school. Thus proving my point again

See my post above about the mind-body problem in Western philosophy.

Descartes? How so?

AppleStrudel23 · Yesterday 14:46

You're making this about Jews, not me!

I'm not, it's an anti-Semitic term. Are the Jewish Chronicle and the Jerusalem Post not satisfactory sources for you?

Can you think of any liberal philosopher who can be seen as a for father of transgenderism as clearly as the Frankfurt school and what it created or was created from it afterwards?

Descartes. Obviously

That is questionable as transgenderism questions the core duality of human nature and family as a social unit.

Hmmm, don't think that's quite right. According to various philosophers on this subject (Kathleen Stock, Moira Gatens, Liz Grosz, for a start) the belief that you are a "woman in a man's body" is an EXTREME version of the mind-body split. Gender extremist ideology assumes that the mind/consciousness can be completely detached from the material reality of the body.

We are both mind and body, no matter what Rene Descartes argued.

That is questionable as transgenderism questions the core duality of human nature and family as a social unit. It tries to dismantle deep social structures which are foundational of our human identity. That has not a lot to do with neoliberal ideas of personal freedom as every liberal philosopher of the past and present recognises the border within freedom. It is however the critical theory that tries to structures of exclusion and domination which explains the gender struggles within transgenderism. Transgenderism I believe is a symptom of the critical theory which is a school of thought practiced by the Frankfurt school and they were all Marxists. Horkheimer described the theory as "to liberate human beings from the circumstances that enslave them".

Can you think of any liberal philosopher who can be seen as a for father of transgenderism as clearly as the Frankfurt school and what it created or was created from it afterwards?

Transgenderism is not based in Marxism. Its a neoliberal belief in the absolute rights of the individual over the welfare of the class as a whole.

@GrumpyPanda

Disprove that the cultural interpretation of Marxism doesn't have an impact on our culture if it's so clear. It's not wild, the definition of culture is "the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society" so of course behaviours and actions can be linked back to intellectual groups like the Frankfurt School.

And don't forget to consider the role of chemtrails in all of this.

Yeah, I think the RedFem podcast women might have something to say about this. Can't think of a specific podcast episode, but they're worth a listen. Marxists, feminists, lesbians - they're good value!

This is really good advice.

After being hauled up to HR about 'transphobia' I now focus any of my opposition against extremist gender ideology through my thoughts on women & girls' rights, and the protected characteristic of 'sex' in the Equality Act.

I am very very careful not to say anything critical (or as little as possible) and trans-identified people, and at work, if pushed will say "Of course, trans-identified people should not be harassed or attacked.' And then turn the topic to women's rights ...

If you wanted to get really serious, one strategy I use is that extremist gender ideology seems to want to change the definition of 'woman.' And I then trot out the phrase (from Women's Place UK, I think): "nothing about us, without us" and say that we need to have a civil conversation about what seem like clashes of equally legal rights.

Oh, and I'm sorry to hear about your DD's no contact. That must be really tough. I hope she comes back to you - although a psychologist friend of mine tells me that young adults go through a sort of second adolescence between 18 and 21, so she could just be acting out. We none of us really mature till our mid-twenties, I think!

The problem is that gender ideology isn't orchestrated. There's no one place or group to blame so there's no quick fix or prevention. It's more like a many-headed hydra, or a disaster when many smaller things went wrong in a chain reaction. Yes there have been specific campaigns and some have been very effective, and yes the Denton's document explained how political capture works and could be a guidebook for many organisations not just whoever first commissioned it. But the effects are more like a flood than a nuclear explosion because gender ideology is fluid(!) and it gets everywhere.

Trans ideology can fit nicely with strict old-fashioned homophobia (my child mustn't grow up gay but they are effeminate, a woman in a man's body is not a gay man, no homosexuality to see here!) and also fit with modern permissiveness and queer theory (my child can be whoever they say they are and it's all fluid anyway so who cares who's a man or a woman) Trans ideology can be leftwing or rightwing or both or neither. Even simple universal ideas like "kindness" can become fair game.

You can try to say "oh it's this kind of politics or that kind of politics to blame" but that's a dead end because gender ideology can be fitted in with all sorts of different politics and different beliefs.

You're making this about Jews, not me!

But fine, let's pander to your beliefs. What shall we call the influence of these thinkers (whatever race they are, I don't care what they are) and the teachings that interpreted these sociologists and philosophers which where all Marxists and now it affects culture. What is it called?

That's what I'm talking about, not about their ethnicity or religion. But please tell me, what's the appropriate wording for that school of thought and it's affects, and whatever it's called I still believe it's wrong.

AppleStrudel23 · Today 14:16

Are you saying "Cultural Marxism" is an anti Semitic term? Or which term do you mean?

Yes, absolutely.

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/is-the-term-cultural-marxism-really-antisemitic-rn6x61tm
In short, Cultural Marxism can be and has been used as an antisemitic phrase, to confer antisemitic meaning or as an antisemitic dog whistle. Because of that, it should be avoided.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/cultural-marxism-catching
Cultural Marxism,' a conspiracy theory with an anti-Semitic twist, is being pushed by much of the American right.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism
A leading Jewish group has criticised a Conservative former minister for using the term “cultural Marxism” in a speech, a reference to a conspiracy theory often associated with the far right and antisemitism.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-743166
Cultural Marxism is a far-right conspiracy theory that arose in the past century, which accuses left-wing and liberal people of revolutionizing society for the worse with their views. This theory purports that Marxist scholars devised a clandestine agenda of progressive politics aimed at undermining Western democracies. Over time, the theory gained antisemitic tones as many who believe in it believe it to be a Jewish plot.

Hi! I'll look into that and get back to you. Thanks for sharing

That's why I said cultural Marxism, which followed the development from the teaching of Adorno and Marcuse who heavily supported the sexual revolution and the demolition of nuclear family and subsequently gender roles. This is the cultural aspect of Marxism. Marxism it may be most famous for its economic ideas (developed in Marx's das Kapital) however even Friedrich Engels wrote about the nuclear family in the book "the origin of the family, private property and the state". Cultural Marxism is a reality away from the economic side of Marxism.